Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4
5777 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1763702 13-Apr-2017 12:00
One person supports this post
Send private message

Yep.  If you didn't do it, there can't be any proof that you did it.  So fight them.  


1139 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1763716 13-Apr-2017 12:12
Send private message

TimA:

 

Clearly you didnt cause the damage,

 

 

 

Sorry, but how do you know that?

 

Whether he did cause the damage or not, it is up to the company to prove that he did, so at least he has that on his side. Everything else is quite irrelevant and there are stiff penalties for companies that get it wrong. The best advice given in this thread is to attend the meeting and not respond until after all the facts are disclosed. Any response should then be within an agreed and realistic timeframe.

 

Assumptions are not enough reason to fire anybody, so if the OP did not cause any damage (as he has stated) and the company has no tangible proof to the contrary, he does not have too much to worry about.

 

The sad thing about any disciplinary meeting is the bad taste it can often leave with all parties if not handled correctly. In the OP's case it may be preferable to grin and bear it during his visa application period, or at least until another fulltime position is found.


 
 
 
 


13299 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1763737 13-Apr-2017 12:24
2 people support this post
Send private message

Unless the damage (regardless of who caused it) was wilfully done rather than accidental, I can't see the case here at all personally. How do they know the cleaners did not do it? Unless they are about to spring evidence on you like CCTV or witnesses, it seems likely they are on a fishing expedition.






6615 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1763741 13-Apr-2017 12:29
Send private message

DaveB:

 

TimA:

 

Clearly you didnt cause the damage,

 

 

 

Sorry, but how do you know that?

 

Whether he did cause the damage or not, it is up to the company to prove that he did, so at least he has that on his side. Everything else is quite irrelevant and there are stiff penalties for companies that get it wrong. The best advice given in this thread is to attend the meeting and not respond until after all the facts are disclosed. Any response should then be within an agreed and realistic timeframe.

 

Assumptions are not enough reason to fire anybody, so if the OP did not cause any damage (as he has stated) and the company has no tangible proof to the contrary, he does not have too much to worry about.

 

The sad thing about any disciplinary meeting is the bad taste it can often leave with all parties if not handled correctly. In the OP's case it may be preferable to grin and bear it during his visa application period, or at least until another fulltime position is found.

 

 

 

 

I dont but the OP has stated he was not involved in any way. Clearly this is intentional physical damage and not a mere accident. Maybe i shouldnt have been so direct stating that he "Clearly didnt cause it" and said Op persists he was not involved.

The second thing on my mind given it was your desk and a co workers, Do you have any grievances with anyone in the company? Maybe someones trying to set you up? 
The sentence that worked for me during a Formal Disciplinary meeting i had 2 years ago was "I feel Harassed and framed for something i did not do" As soon as the word harassment comes out people are very quick to drop their case.


Lock him up!
10664 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1763782 13-Apr-2017 13:08
6 people support this post
Send private message

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do in a situation like this but I can tell you what I think I would do. I would attend the meeting, tell my story, and fight any accusations. Any other course of action can come back to bite you in unexpected ways sometime in the future. If you have done nothing wrong, you need to stand up for that. I strongly agree with those who recommend taking a support person along if there is someone suitable you can call on. Just having someone there will make you feel less outnumbered and can help you to stay focused. You need a friend or advocate who is confident and will remain calm and quiet but can help clarify things if necessary.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


13299 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1763786 13-Apr-2017 13:19
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do in a situation like this but I can tell you what I think I would do. I would attend the meeting, tell my story, and fight any accusations. Any other course of action can come back to bite you in unexpected ways sometime in the future. If you have done nothing wrong, you need to stand up for that. I strongly agree with those who recommend taking a support person along if there is someone suitable you can call on. Just having someone there will make you feel less outnumbered and can help you to stay focused. You need a friend or advocate who is confident and will remain calm and quiet but can help clarify things if necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Rikkitic and I have been known to disagree on occasion. In this, however, we do not.






216 posts

Master Geek


  # 1763791 13-Apr-2017 13:27
7 people support this post
Send private message

Also record the meeting on your phone or something similar. Be up front at the start of the meeting and say that you will be recording it. It can be a stressful situation and you may not hear or comprehend what is being said in the meeting at the time and you can use the recording as a reference to base your response. Also the recording can be used in wrongful dismissal cases.


 
 
 
 


790 posts

Ultimate Geek


543 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1763919 13-Apr-2017 16:10
Send private message

Are you a member of an union? I've found them very helpful in similar situations. They offer free legal advice and they can send someone with you (who can be a laywer in more serious cases) who can advise. But if not I would advise getting proper legal advice. For now make sure you document everything that happens as it will help your case if it goes to mediation or employment court.


1944 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1763922 13-Apr-2017 16:18
2 people support this post
Send private message

NZ has quite solid guidelines in law for managing scenario's like this, that have been tested in court and made quite robust. Immigration status does not matter unless you are here illegally, and that is a seperate issue.

 

 

 

Seriously though, a community website like GKZ is not the place to come for final supporting advice, and you should engage an employement lawyer; there are quite a few around and this sounds like a clear cut railroading exercise.

 

 

 

Regardless, I doubt you will want to work at this place whatever the conclusion, so all you are working on is making sure your professional reputation isn't being unjustly diminished and shat on - your next employer will want to know why you left etc. 

 

 

 

 





________

 

Antonios K

 

Click to see full size


263 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1763962 13-Apr-2017 17:05
One person supports this post
Send private message

Was the desktop on when the screen was damaged? If so, the logs will show a device disconnect, thus proving of a time damage occurred. 





2638 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1763980 13-Apr-2017 17:50
Send private message

This seems serious.

 

I would suggest:

 

1.  Asking for a delay, to allow you to arrange for someone to be at the meeting with you.

 

2.  Consulting a lawyer immediatley.

 

3.  Not relying on GZ denizens for that legal advice. We mean well, but we aren't experts on this. And advice from an actual expert is what you should obtain.

 

4.  Not doing anything, including tabling a letter or resignation otherwise, until you have consulted a lawyer.


463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1763983 13-Apr-2017 17:52
12 people support this post
Send private message

I'm not a lawyer, thank goodness, but I am an employer of about 100 people. Here's what you should and shouldn't do:

1. And this is the most important thing; don't have the meeting unless you have a support person with you in the room, taking notes. You are allowed to do this, and you are allowed time to organise a person.
2. Don't resign, and importantly never resign citing reasons (this is good general advice actually).
3. Listen to their case, don't interrupt. When asked for your response be as clear and concise as possible "I didn't cause the damage, and I don't know who did". Nothing else - wait for them to respond.
4. If asked questions, answer clearly and in a straightforward way; again, be as brief and terse as possible, and make them make the running.
5. If they want to take it further, suggest you need time to respond after you've had time to think about your options. Mention you need to seek legal advice. You'll need a week to do this, at minimum. Then seek legal advice at citizens advice Centre.

The key here is to keep calm, don't argue, don't ever say 'yes, but' or even 'but'. Don't embellish anything or start sounding like you are making excuses - be as brief as possible in your comments and pause, wait for them to speak. Uncomfortable silences work to your advantage here, trust me.

I do need to say this does seem like a trivial issue, and I'm suspicious there is history here.




BlinkyBill


4366 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1764164 14-Apr-2017 08:48
Send private message

throbb:

 

emilyrain:

 

The thing that concerns me about the firing thing is that it would go on my record for 12 months, I can't risk that because of trying to apply for residency I might get rejected for the visa hence more stress, my current visa is up in July so I'm getting the application sent in the next few weeks

 

 

 

 

What record are you talking about? There is no record that tracks reasons for leaving jobs.

 

 

Immigration  might contact employers in person I guess. 

 

Going off topic a little, as I guess this meeting has been held already. 

 

But it reminds me of the Wells Fargo scandal where setting unachievable sales targets.   Employees refusing to meet unrealistic targets through unethical means were fired, and a U5 form filed with Finra which effectively blackballs the employee from working in the banking industry. It must have been hell having a rogue employer permanently marking your employment record when you'd done nothing wrong. 


5777 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1764271 14-Apr-2017 12:15
Send private message

antoniosk:

 

Seriously though, a community website like GKZ is not the place to come for final supporting advice

 

 

Yep agreed, which is why it's pleasing to see so many GZ members have been responsible enough to advise seeking official advice as part of their response.


1 | 2 | 3 | 4
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51


Facebook Portal to land in New Zealand
Posted 19-Sep-2019 18:35


Amazon Studios announces New Zealand as location for its upcoming series based on The Lord of the Rings
Posted 18-Sep-2019 17:24


The Warehouse chooses Elasticsearch service
Posted 18-Sep-2019 13:55


Voyager upgrades core network to 100Gbit
Posted 18-Sep-2019 13:52


Streaming service Acorn TV launches in New Zealand with selection with British shows
Posted 18-Sep-2019 08:55



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.