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Pumpedd
1759 posts

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  #1928834 4-Jan-2018 08:44
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Not sure what Auckland Council does with rates money...clearly they dont use it for infrastructure....guess they will exect the Labour Government to fix this shambles as well.


Aredwood
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  #1928880 4-Jan-2018 10:10

The central interceptor is just a big sewage storage tunnel. The first claim from the link about it states that it will reduce sewage overflows by up to 80%. In other words they are saying that in 10 years time, and after spending megabucks building it. Having some sewage overflows will still be considered perfectly fine.

The council are just delaying the inevitable. They will eventually have to install separate stormwater pipes. But as I have previously said in other threads. Because Watercare is responsible for sewage while the council is responsible for stormwater. Neither want to spend money on separation of sewage and stormwater pipes. As in Watercare's case, it doesn't get any extra revenue for doing so.

I mentioned cycleways because they cost money to build. And with electric cars and soon electric buses arriving. There won't be any pollution reduction from riding on a cycleway. Compared to traveling in an electric car or bus. It is simply that the council can't get it's priorities right. As fixing the sewage system will give a far greater reduction in pollution than what cycleways ever could. So stop all spending on cycleways and reallocate that money to fixing the sewage and stormwater system.





 
 
 
 


blackjack17
1113 posts

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  #1928901 4-Jan-2018 10:35
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Aredwood: The central interceptor is just a big sewage storage tunnel. The first claim from the link about it states that it will reduce sewage overflows by up to 80%. In other words they are saying that in 10 years time, and after spending megabucks building it. Having some sewage overflows will still be considered perfectly fine.

The council are just delaying the inevitable. They will eventually have to install separate stormwater pipes. But as I have previously said in other threads. Because Watercare is responsible for sewage while the council is responsible for stormwater. Neither want to spend money on separation of sewage and stormwater pipes. As in Watercare's case, it doesn't get any extra revenue for doing so.

I mentioned cycleways because they cost money to build. And with electric cars and soon electric buses arriving. There won't be any pollution reduction from riding on a cycleway. Compared to traveling in an electric car or bus. It is simply that the council can't get it's priorities right. As fixing the sewage system will give a far greater reduction in pollution than what cycleways ever could. So stop all spending on cycleways and reallocate that money to fixing the sewage and stormwater system.

 

 

 

It is impossible to have no pollution.  I have no idea what it would cost to completely separate stormwater from sewage for the whole central Auckland but I am sure that what we spend on cycleways wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket.  A better way of getting more money to pay for it would be reducing what we spend on roads as currently half of our rates go towards roading (I seem to remember reading).

 

Electric cars will still be more polluting than a bike.  They take resources to build and electricity to move.  They need to be shipped here, they are much heavier and so damage roads.  They take up more space.

 

 

 

Cycleways allow children to get a round safely and encourage people to be more active.





driller2000
805 posts

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  #1929049 4-Jan-2018 14:04
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Aredwood: The central interceptor is just a big sewage storage tunnel. The first claim from the link about it states that it will reduce sewage overflows by up to 80%. In other words they are saying that in 10 years time, and after spending megabucks building it. Having some sewage overflows will still be considered perfectly fine.

The council are just delaying the inevitable. They will eventually have to install separate stormwater pipes. But as I have previously said in other threads. Because Watercare is responsible for sewage while the council is responsible for stormwater. Neither want to spend money on separation of sewage and stormwater pipes. As in Watercare's case, it doesn't get any extra revenue for doing so.

I mentioned cycleways because they cost money to build. And with electric cars and soon electric buses arriving. There won't be any pollution reduction from riding on a cycleway. Compared to traveling in an electric car or bus. It is simply that the council can't get it's priorities right. As fixing the sewage system will give a far greater reduction in pollution than what cycleways ever could. So stop all spending on cycleways and reallocate that money to fixing the sewage and stormwater system.

 

 

 

As a city we cant afford to capture ALL overflows - no city can:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/96781274/extraordinary-rain-causes-extraordinary-sewage-overflows-for-auckland-in-year-of-tasman-tempest-and-cyclone-debbie

 

Quite simply we can't afford to design and build for 100% protection/level of service. So we need to target the right level of investment vs the outcomes that can be achieved.

 

 

 

And while there are ongoing discussions between Watercare and Council around funding and prioritising such projects - Central Interceptor is just one of many projects - with others having been built and even more planned:

 

https://www.watercare.co.nz/Faults-outages/Plumbing-and-wastewater/Wastewater-overflows/Working-to-reduce-overflows

 

 

 

The key question will be how much are ratepayers prepared to pay - and this article touches on this:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11949948

 

 

 

So yeah - stuff has and is being done - but its an expensive issue to tackle and is one of many facing Akl.

 

 

 

 

 

 


mattwnz
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  #1929073 4-Jan-2018 14:47
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larknz: Town dwellers do have a duty tu use water responsibly.
What about the person who washes their car in the street and all the detergent goes into the gutter which flows into the nearest waterway and what about the person who waters their garden during the middle of the day for hours on end with most of the water flowing down the drain?

 

 

 

I suspect there are far worse chemicals coming off a road than detergent from car washing. eg leaking fuel and oil from parked cars. Solids from exhaust fumes that deposit on the roads and washing into the gutters when it rains etc. Perhaps part of the problem is that the stormwater needs to go though though some form of  sewage treatment plant too. But the government is in control of detergents and can require them to be biodegradable.

 

I fail to see what watering the garden has to do with pollution? All that is fresh water, so even if it goes into the stormwater, it is clean and potentially dilutes the water anyway. People also pay for that water through their rates, and many are now metered anyway. Maybe they need to make having underground watertanks in each garden mandatory. But then we get into the argument as to whether it is better value for everyone to have their own tanks, or everyone to pay for big water storage lakes, which should be a lot cheaper. But councils appear to have under invested in water storage. They have got money from developers for new housing developments, but little appears to go into increasing the infrastructure. This is now why these councils are having to play expensive catchup.


Geektastic
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  #1929074 4-Jan-2018 14:49
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We really need to start thinking of water and sewage as "New Zealand Water & Sewage" rather than "Insert council name here Water & Sewage".

 

 

 

With the changes in weather patterns and so on, it needs a national infrastructure approach not a local one. Odd that we can have (for example) a Ministry for entering a mine disaster but the concept of a quango to deal with water and sewage in a joined up way is apparently too hard.






Fred99
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  #1929263 4-Jan-2018 17:50
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mattwnz:

 

I fail to see what watering the garden has to do with pollution? All that is fresh water, so even if it goes into the stormwater, it is clean and potentially dilutes the water anyway. 

 

 

Many people put (an excessive amount of) fertiliser on gardens and lawns, phosphates, nitrates etc, which leach into waterways contributing to eutrophication (algal blooms etc).


 
 
 
 


Fred99
10937 posts

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  #1929278 4-Jan-2018 17:59
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Geektastic:

 

We really need to start thinking of water and sewage as "New Zealand Water & Sewage" rather than "Insert council name here Water & Sewage".

 

 

 

With the changes in weather patterns and so on, it needs a national infrastructure approach not a local one. Odd that we can have (for example) a Ministry for entering a mine disaster but the concept of a quango to deal with water and sewage in a joined up way is apparently too hard.

 

 

I'm not sure how and if a centralised system would improve a fundamental issue - that as buried infrastructure is unseen, nobody cares at all until their toilet won't flush or their taps won't deliver drinkable water, or their dog takes a swim in a polluted creek and they get a $1,000 vet bill.  Then they scream blue murder - after spending the past bleating about rate or tax increases, yet boasting about how much their house value has increased due to population demand-force inflation never matched by infrastructural investment. 

 

 


mattwnz
16705 posts

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  #1929290 4-Jan-2018 18:43
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Fred99:

 

mattwnz:

 

I fail to see what watering the garden has to do with pollution? All that is fresh water, so even if it goes into the stormwater, it is clean and potentially dilutes the water anyway. 

 

 

Many people put (an excessive amount of) fertiliser on gardens and lawns, phosphates, nitrates etc, which leach into waterways contributing to eutrophication (algal blooms etc).

 

 

 

 

I guess that is true in some cases, however I would expect rain to be more of a problem,than people watering their garden. Maybe restricting what people put on their garden or so it stays localised in the garden, via education, could be an idea. Generally stormwater water should only exit the garden via the garden edges. Otherwise all stormwater on a property should go into soakpits in the garden, or just soak into the ground or evaporate.


driller2000
805 posts

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  #1929303 4-Jan-2018 19:19
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Fred99:

 

mattwnz:

 

I fail to see what watering the garden has to do with pollution? All that is fresh water, so even if it goes into the stormwater, it is clean and potentially dilutes the water anyway. 

 

 

Many people put (an excessive amount of) fertiliser on gardens and lawns, phosphates, nitrates etc, which leach into waterways contributing to eutrophication (algal blooms etc).

 

 

 

 

In urban areas nutrients via fertilisers are a minor issue re water quality as the application rates are minimal and the areas that they are applied too small in comparison to the entire catchment.

 

Bigger issues for urban catchments include - litter, sediment, heavy metals, hydrocarbons, chemical spills/dumping - and wastewater overflows:

 

https://www.niwa.co.nz/freshwater-and-estuaries/stormwater-management/characterising-stormwater-quality

 

https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/environment/stormwater/Pages/keep-out-of-stormwater-drain.aspx

 

 


MadEngineer
2194 posts

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  #1931883 7-Jan-2018 22:00
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mattwnz:

 

larknz: Town dwellers do have a duty tu use water responsibly.
What about the person who washes their car in the street and all the detergent goes into the gutter which flows into the nearest waterway and what about the person who waters their garden during the middle of the day for hours on end with most of the water flowing down the drain?

 

 

 

I suspect there are far worse chemicals coming off a road than detergent from car washing. eg leaking fuel and oil from parked cars. Solids from exhaust fumes that deposit on the roads and washing into the gutters when it rains etc. Perhaps part of the problem is that the stormwater needs to go though though some form of  sewage treatment plant too. But the government is in control of detergents and can require them to be biodegradable.

 

 

It's bad enough that a council has banned driveway car washing* https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/71493039/That-won-t-wash-Porirua-City-Council-bans-car-washing-on-driveways

 

 

 

* with products

 

 

 

It makes for very sad reading

 

http://www.newswire.co.nz/2010/06/dead-harbour/


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