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  #2099584 1-Oct-2018 18:35
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mattwnz:

mdooher:


Hmm, metal straws...what could possibly go wrong?



 


Keeping them clean would be one issue. I have something that has a stainless tube, and it is very difficult to the the inner side of the tube clean without using a pipe cleaner.



As I mentioned, the ones we purchased from eBay came with a mini brush to clean the insides, and it’s no hassle to do this. I’m sure they’ll be available here too...

TBH, I’d be more worried about the design of so many water bottles, which appear almost deliberately designed as germ traps (those flexible plastic straws some use; the crevices no brush can reach...).


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  #2099585 1-Oct-2018 18:45
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mattwnz:

 

Keeping them clean would be one issue. I have something that has a stainless tube, and it is very difficult to the the inner side of the tube clean without using a pipe cleaner.

 

 

Our stainless steel straws came with a pipe cleaner type brush.  

 

Re the other comment from @mdooher about kids tripping - that's why there's cardboard straws.  We're an adults only house so stainless steel works fine for us.  As with most things, it comes down to the intelligence of the parents.  


 
 
 
 


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  #2099586 1-Oct-2018 18:46
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This another step in the right direction. If anyone wants proof of the need to deal with plastic take a walk along any beach, it's not only the big bits of plastic it is also the sand grain size. Plastic is a huge risk to our viability.




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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2099629 1-Oct-2018 20:03
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TinyTim:

DarthKermit:


Another token gesture from the grocery industry. I briefly worked at a Countdown distribution centre a number of years ago.


All that conveniently packaged stuff we buy from supermarkets is delivered to said supermarkets on pallets that are spun around on a machine and tightly wrapped with a lot of plastic shrink wrap. That shrink wrap goes in the rubbish after its one use.



But it doesn't end up in the environment, which is what the bag/straw issue is. Take them outside, have a picnic, take them to the beach etc and they can easily end up in the water (and hence fish) - which is what a lot of recent publicity has been about.



So a big wad of shrink wrap going into a landfill doesn’t count as being ‘in the environment’?




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  #2099630 1-Oct-2018 20:03
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Kids tripping with metal straws in their mouths? Good grief, why bother let them outside then what with all the hazards! A true straw man argument if I've ever seen one.

 

Ban all plastic I say!


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  #2099631 1-Oct-2018 20:06
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It's virtue-signaling b/s to show how "woke" they are. 

 

Most plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers in Asia and Africa. Nothing we do here is going to make a difference.

 

Supporters of laws prohibiting plastic products encourage politicians to make meaningless gestures rather than focus on ridding the oceans of plastic and other waste. A 2015 study in the journal Science found that of the estimated 4.8 to 12.7 million metric tons of plastic that entered the ocean from 192 of the world’s coastal countries, as little as 0.9 percent of it came from the United States.

 

A more recent study, from the Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research, found that 90 percent of plastic polluting the world’s oceans comes from ten rivers, eight of which are in Asia; two are in Africa. In other words, developed countries such as the United States and New Zealand aren’t part of the problem, and taking away the freedoms of their citizens isn’t part of the solution either.

 

 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/plastic-bag-straw-bans-ocean-pollution/


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  #2099637 1-Oct-2018 20:14
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da5id:

 

It's virtue-signaling b/s to show how "woke" they are. 

 

Most plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers in Asia and Africa. Nothing we do here is going to make a difference.

 

Supporters of laws prohibiting plastic products encourage politicians to make meaningless gestures rather than focus on ridding the oceans of plastic and other waste. A 2015 study in the journal Science found that of the estimated 4.8 to 12.7 million metric tons of plastic that entered the ocean from 192 of the world’s coastal countries, as little as 0.9 percent of it came from the United States.

 

A more recent study, from the Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research, found that 90 percent of plastic polluting the world’s oceans comes from ten rivers, eight of which are in Asia; two are in Africa. In other words, developed countries such as the United States and New Zealand aren’t part of the problem, and taking away the freedoms of their citizens isn’t part of the solution either.

 

 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/plastic-bag-straw-bans-ocean-pollution/

 

 

So the New World shopping bag that gets caught on our outboard motor leg is from Asia. The plastic beads on Petone Beach are from Africa.  





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2099638 1-Oct-2018 20:23
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Gurezaemon:

Rikkitic:


I grew up in the 1950s. It was a time of drug store (milk bar) culture for young people. We got by perfectly well with paper straws. What is the big deal?



I vote we go with straws made out of ivory. After all, they're both natural and renewable.



Are elephant tusks hollow? Even if they are, they’re too big to go into even a super-size thickshake container. I vote for thin-drawn glass-tube straws. Kids would love ‘em.




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  #2099649 1-Oct-2018 20:33
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eracode:
TinyTim:

 

DarthKermit:

 

 

 

Another token gesture from the grocery industry. I briefly worked at a Countdown distribution centre a number of years ago.

 

 

 

All that conveniently packaged stuff we buy from supermarkets is delivered to said supermarkets on pallets that are spun around on a machine and tightly wrapped with a lot of plastic shrink wrap. That shrink wrap goes in the rubbish after its one use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But it doesn't end up in the environment, which is what the bag/straw issue is. Take them outside, have a picnic, take them to the beach etc and they can easily end up in the water (and hence fish) - which is what a lot of recent publicity has been about.

 



So a big wad of shrink wrap going into a landfill doesn’t count as being ‘in the environment’?

 

 

 

No. 

 

I mean it's still not ideal but it ends up sealed in a big tomb where it can't leach or escape or end up in the ocean or food chain. Unless it's the Wellington Southern Landfill where we end up with loads of plastic bags blowing around and hanging from gorse bushes in the surrounding  hills. 





 

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  #2099876 2-Oct-2018 10:50
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Whilst at a barbers in Bali this year I bought 5 bamboo straws for $2 as they were purported to be money raising for some green organisation. Haven't used them yet. Hadn't thought about the cleaning problem.





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  #2099877 2-Oct-2018 10:52
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I used a paper straw at Burger Boy on the weekend, Was soggy and tasted like something weird after a few minutes of sitting in some black death (Coke). 


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  #2100248 2-Oct-2018 18:43
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A Wellington consultancy firm also did a study on the bags based on statistics, but also practically going around coastal and beach/park areas to see what they could find blowing around and what percentage was trash. Very little of the trash was plastic bags. So they also agree that banning plastic bags would not help very much. Among their findings, are that a ban could likely cost the country $75 million a year. 

 

To summarize - 

 

  • Supermarket checkout bags do not materially contribute to littering
  • Supermarket checkout bags are efficient and cheap
  • Impacts can be perverse
  • Supermarket bags likely to have a lower overall environmental impact than many
    alternatives
  • Reusable bags are a health risk
  • A ban is unlikely to materially reduce marine littering
  • The circular economy approach to environmental and economic management is
    often irrational
  • A ban cannot be imposed by regulation
  • Evaluation methodology rigged to generate the right answer
  • A ban will have an economic cost of more than $75 million per year
  • A minimum charge is a more efficient response than a ban
  • Our role as responsible global citizen best served by reducing overseas pollution

Detailed report at link

 

http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/PlasticBagsConsultation.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2100251 2-Oct-2018 18:50
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Fred99:

 

Why would an adult want to put a straw in their mouth anyway? 

 

I got put off straws when I was a kid. Sucking on a thick shake, I thought some ice cream was blocking the end, sucked harder and got a mouth full of blowfly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone that is not as able bodied as yourself may not be able to lift a glass or cup to their mouth, a straw is a wonderful thing for them...


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  #2100262 2-Oct-2018 19:14
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jfanning:

 

Fred99:

 

Why would an adult want to put a straw in their mouth anyway? 

 

I got put off straws when I was a kid. Sucking on a thick shake, I thought some ice cream was blocking the end, sucked harder and got a mouth full of blowfly.

 

 

 

 

Someone that is not as able bodied as yourself may not be able to lift a glass or cup to their mouth, a straw is a wonderful thing for them...

 

 

I was going to say that would really suck, but nah - that's not correct.  Year 11 physics.  It blows.

 

I'm actually amazed at some of the enthusiasm for plastic straws being expressed here.  I think the blowfly episode was with a paper straw, and probably a result of Arbuckle (I'll call him that - because it was his real name) who owned the corner milk bar, stored the straws on the counter in an open container, and stuff happens.  I think the blowfly was already dead and dessicated - was too crunchy to be fresh in my opinion.  If it had dropped in one of the aluminium milkshake containers and been micronised by high speed cavitation - I'd have probably never noticed.

 

Yes - some people need straws.  Most people don't.

 

 


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  #2100272 2-Oct-2018 19:24
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I was never a straw person anyway - don't like Coke and all that - but didn't the paper ones used to be coated in wax or something to keep them from going all soggy? I can't remember the straws of my youth ever presenting the kinds of problems described here.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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