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  Reply # 2165477 22-Jan-2019 14:36
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chimera:

You do know this thread will only end when the aliens turn up


 



already has. Page 3, post 2




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  Reply # 2165481 22-Jan-2019 14:44
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Batman:
chimera:

 

You do know this thread will only end when the aliens turn up

 

 

 

 

 



already has. Page 3, post 2

 

"KiwiTim" needs to change his name to "Tim from Planet Zogg" then, avoids confusion...

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2165564 22-Jan-2019 16:16
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chimera:

 

Batman:
chimera:

 

You do know this thread will only end when the aliens turn up

 

 

 

 

 



already has. Page 3, post 2

 

"KiwiTim" needs to change his name to "Tim from Planet Zogg" then, avoids confusion...

 

 

 

 

I normally like to keep my true identity under wraps; made an exception for this thread. Once we have infiltrated the highest orders of human society, we will reveal ourselves. Thought we were already there with putting our boy Trump in charge of the USA, but since China is going to eclipse the US economy next year, looks like we picked the wrong pony. So much for super alien intelligence.




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  Reply # 2166795 24-Jan-2019 11:12
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In CNN today

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/23/world/earth-collision-life-elements/index.html

This collision made life possible on Earth, study says

Earth didn't exactly start out ready to support life, but scientists now have a better idea of how the essential elements for life ended up on our planet, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances.

Something had to deliver the vast majority of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, hydrogen and other elements, known as volatiles, to Earth because the rocky planets in the solar system lacked these essential ingredients for life.

"But the timing and mechanism of volatile delivery has been hotly debated," said Rajdeep Dasgupta, co-author of the new study and professor in Rice University's Department of Earth, Environmental and Planetary Sciences, in a statement. "Ours is the first scenario that can explain the timing and delivery in a way that is consistent with all of the geochemical evidence."

Earth didn't exactly start out ready to support life, but scientists now have a better idea of how the essential elements for life ended up on our planet, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances.

Something had to deliver the vast majority of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, hydrogen and other elements, known as volatiles, to Earth because the rocky planets in the solar system lacked these essential ingredients for life.
...
"What we found is that all the evidence are consistent with a moon-forming impact involving a volatile-bearing, Mars-sized planet with a sulfur-rich core," Grewal said.

The researchers also discovered that the Earth and the moon's volatiles have a similar origin, which rules out the theory that the volatile elements arrived on Earth after the moon was formed.

But the finding doesn't just have implications for Earth's history.

"This study suggests that a rocky, Earth-like planet gets more chances to acquire life-essential elements if it forms and grows from giant impacts with planets that have sampled different building blocks, perhaps from different parts of a protoplanetary disk," Dasgupta said. "This removes some boundary conditions. It shows that life-essential volatiles can arrive at the surface layers of a planet, even if they were produced on planetary bodies that underwent core formation under very different conditions."

By itself, Earth could not have produced enough volatiles to create an atmosphere, all of the bodies of water on its surface or an environment to support life.

"That means we can broaden our search for pathways that lead to volatile elements coming together on a planet to support life as we know it," Dasgupta said.

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  Reply # 2166864 24-Jan-2019 12:20
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I don't believe that.

 

We have a lot of sulphur being regenerated by the turnover at our crust, and we have a lot of chemicals being generated at the depth of our seas, also by the crust. We didn't have water, but the Big Bombardment over millions of years gave that to us, from meteors and comets. The collision referred to gave us the Moon. No Moon no life. The Moon stabilises our orbit, and that collision was I think why we have a tilt, which is also a big help to keep water mobile, as in, solid to liquid to gas on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure most other planets and stars have similar chemical makeups 


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  Reply # 2166865 24-Jan-2019 12:22
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This is very interesting, in relation to the Aliens comment and evolution in general, touches on the goldielocks features of our planet and moon etc.


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  Reply # 2166867 24-Jan-2019 12:25
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tdgeek:

 

I don't believe that.

 

We have a lot of sulphur being regenerated by the turnover at our crust, and we have a lot of chemicals being generated at the depth of our seas, also by the crust. We didn't have water, but the Big Bombardment over millions of years gave that to us, from meteors and comets. The collision referred to gave us the Moon. No Moon no life. The Moon stabilises our orbit, and that collision was I think why we have a tilt, which is also a big help to keep water mobile, as in, solid to liquid to gas on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure most other planets and stars have similar chemical makeups 

 

 

You need a single very large moon also in close proximity to also stabilize the planet and control tides, the mixing of water is crucial (Tides), if there was no mixing in the oceans then life would have not grown at the rate it had or not at all, a lot of gas and organic compounds were released by the ocean in the early days because of this. The tilt and plane we are on in the green zone is also crucial. Watch the video above, there are some comments about this topic IIRC.


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  Reply # 2166910 24-Jan-2019 12:40
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kingdragonfly: In CNN today


Something had to deliver the vast majority of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, hydrogen and other elements, known as volatiles, to Earth because the rocky planets in the solar system lacked these essential ingredients for life.



I’ll go back to the principles of science on this one.

I would suggest that this is a ‘postulate’. - it is suggesting the statement is truthful, but it is not a principle - an observed fact.

So I am going to question it. How is it known that all of the resources required were delivered all at one time. As compared to - many of them were already there in the formation of the earth AND some were delivered a little and often over a period of time. For example, some elements are formed by stars and form part of the cosmic dust that planets could be made of. So, was the earth made of cosmic dust, or, does the earth travel through cosmic dust periodically.

I am always a little wary when I seen an article built around a postulate that is couched as an assertion - one has to check to see if the assertion is true.




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  Reply # 2166927 24-Jan-2019 13:15
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Coil:

 

tdgeek:

 

I don't believe that.

 

We have a lot of sulphur being regenerated by the turnover at our crust, and we have a lot of chemicals being generated at the depth of our seas, also by the crust. We didn't have water, but the Big Bombardment over millions of years gave that to us, from meteors and comets. The collision referred to gave us the Moon. No Moon no life. The Moon stabilises our orbit, and that collision was I think why we have a tilt, which is also a big help to keep water mobile, as in, solid to liquid to gas on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure most other planets and stars have similar chemical makeups 

 

 

You need a single very large moon also in close proximity to also stabilize the planet and control tides, the mixing of water is crucial (Tides), if there was no mixing in the oceans then life would have not grown at the rate it had or not at all, a lot of gas and organic compounds were released by the ocean in the early days because of this. The tilt and plane we are on in the green zone is also crucial. Watch the video above, there are some comments about this topic IIRC.

 

 

Great clip. yes, the Great Water Tunnel I think its called. Climate change will slow that down to a halt one day with disastrous results.

 

His numbers were interesting re the barriers. Arbitrary numbers, but even so it paints a "no one else is here" outcome. Pity he didnt relate the numbers to any form of life. We have organic life in boiling ponds of water here on Earth.

 

My belief is that there are other forms of intelligent life, and that we don't hear them as they are too far away, and we are too far away, due to our blink of an eye time here. For example, our galaxy, the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. We are on an outer spiral. If intelligent life sent signals to us, they are still on the way. As are what we send, that's only accessible from a few dozen light decades away from us.

 

You can never tire of any topic related to the Cosmos


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  Reply # 2166953 24-Jan-2019 14:15
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I have often thought about the communication issue. We have only been generating RF for about 140 years. Initially, the signal was pretty poor and would have quickly vanished into background noise. Later most of it would probably have bounced back to us due to the spectrum used. Only during WWII did we start generating some serious stuff with radar, and even with that the question is how far it would have carried. 

 

In the 1950s we had VHF television. I think (no doubt someone else will know better) that we only began producing worthwhile emissions in the 1960s, also around the time we began investigating signals from space. So there have been maybe 60 years during which we might have had a minuscule chance of having a one-way conversation with anyone else out there.

 

The earth is around four billion years old. Life has existed on it for two, maybe three billion years. We evolved into existence around two million years ago and developed brains that could comprehend crystal sets about 200,000 years ago. So in two billion years of evolution, there have been 60 years in which we could have communicated with ET. 

 

There could be hundreds of millions of advanced civilisations out there just like our own. Tens of millions could have lived and died before the earth was even a gleam in the sun's eye. Maybe one day we will hear from one of them, a long-dead echo of a distant past. Right now there could be millions wondering why they don't hear anything from us. Maybe they will pick up our final cries for help in a few thousand years.

 

So how long will it be before we lose or abandon our capacity to communicate? Out of 10,000 years of civilisation, 250 years of industrial society, 140 years of technological capability, how big is that communications window, really?

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2166980 24-Jan-2019 14:50
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tdgeek:

 

Coil:

 

tdgeek:

 

I don't believe that.

 

We have a lot of sulphur being regenerated by the turnover at our crust, and we have a lot of chemicals being generated at the depth of our seas, also by the crust. We didn't have water, but the Big Bombardment over millions of years gave that to us, from meteors and comets. The collision referred to gave us the Moon. No Moon no life. The Moon stabilises our orbit, and that collision was I think why we have a tilt, which is also a big help to keep water mobile, as in, solid to liquid to gas on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure most other planets and stars have similar chemical makeups 

 

 

You need a single very large moon also in close proximity to also stabilize the planet and control tides, the mixing of water is crucial (Tides), if there was no mixing in the oceans then life would have not grown at the rate it had or not at all, a lot of gas and organic compounds were released by the ocean in the early days because of this. The tilt and plane we are on in the green zone is also crucial. Watch the video above, there are some comments about this topic IIRC.

 

 

Great clip. yes, the Great Water Tunnel I think its called. Climate change will slow that down to a halt one day with disastrous results.

 

His numbers were interesting re the barriers. Arbitrary numbers, but even so it paints a "no one else is here" outcome. Pity he didnt relate the numbers to any form of life. We have organic life in boiling ponds of water here on Earth.

 

My belief is that there are other forms of intelligent life, and that we don't hear them as they are too far away, and we are too far away, due to our blink of an eye time here. For example, our galaxy, the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. We are on an outer spiral. If intelligent life sent signals to us, they are still on the way. As are what we send, that's only accessible from a few dozen light decades away from us.

 

You can never tire of any topic related to the Cosmos

 

 

This. 

 

The guy in the TED talk is an interesting speaker, articulate and largely neutral on his theories - until he states he thinks we are alone at the end, that's fine, he makes some valid points, but he also goes along the lines of a 1/1000 assumption (number plucking), he also makes the assumption that what we deem as the Goldilocks zone, is the only way life can exist.  As tdgeek states, we have already proven life can exist in hundreds of degrees of heat, likewise in frozen lakes, so who's to say that any intelligent Alien existence has to be anything like us? They could be like the African-American lady on DC Titans on Netflix who can shoot fire out her hands lol.

 

 


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  Reply # 2166998 24-Jan-2019 15:28
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chimera:

 

tdgeek:

 

Coil:

 

tdgeek:

 

I don't believe that.

 

We have a lot of sulphur being regenerated by the turnover at our crust, and we have a lot of chemicals being generated at the depth of our seas, also by the crust. We didn't have water, but the Big Bombardment over millions of years gave that to us, from meteors and comets. The collision referred to gave us the Moon. No Moon no life. The Moon stabilises our orbit, and that collision was I think why we have a tilt, which is also a big help to keep water mobile, as in, solid to liquid to gas on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure most other planets and stars have similar chemical makeups 

 

 

You need a single very large moon also in close proximity to also stabilize the planet and control tides, the mixing of water is crucial (Tides), if there was no mixing in the oceans then life would have not grown at the rate it had or not at all, a lot of gas and organic compounds were released by the ocean in the early days because of this. The tilt and plane we are on in the green zone is also crucial. Watch the video above, there are some comments about this topic IIRC.

 

 

Great clip. yes, the Great Water Tunnel I think its called. Climate change will slow that down to a halt one day with disastrous results.

 

His numbers were interesting re the barriers. Arbitrary numbers, but even so it paints a "no one else is here" outcome. Pity he didnt relate the numbers to any form of life. We have organic life in boiling ponds of water here on Earth.

 

My belief is that there are other forms of intelligent life, and that we don't hear them as they are too far away, and we are too far away, due to our blink of an eye time here. For example, our galaxy, the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. We are on an outer spiral. If intelligent life sent signals to us, they are still on the way. As are what we send, that's only accessible from a few dozen light decades away from us.

 

You can never tire of any topic related to the Cosmos

 

 

This. 

 

The guy in the TED talk is an interesting speaker, articulate and largely neutral on his theories - until he states he thinks we are alone at the end, that's fine, he makes some valid points, but he also goes along the lines of a 1/1000 assumption (number plucking), he also makes the assumption that what we deem as the Goldilocks zone, is the only way life can exist.  As tdgeek states, we have already proven life can exist in hundreds of degrees of heat, likewise in frozen lakes, so who's to say that any intelligent Alien existence has to be anything like us? They could be like the African-American lady on DC Titans on Netflix who can shoot fire out her hands lol.

 

 

 

 

I feel he is giving the viewer the tools to form their own understanding and idea from it, Well it helped me form a perspective and understanding that was my own. No one will ever be correct in this. I think many may have missed the part where he says "Intelligent life capable of a project like starshot" rather than organisms living in thermal vents, because they already exist around our own solar system and bacteria can withstand some extreme environments.

 

We only know what we do and don't know. But we don't know what we don't know. I appreciate the theory on the Goldilocks zone maybe not being required and so fourth. For highly functioning intelligent life to form and flourish you need the conditions that we have currently, those conditions are found in multiple different solar systems. The key part is a temperature for liquids to be fluid and not solid in a uniformed way across the planets surface. All well and good having a few bacteria living around a vent, but I don't think a few bacteria built Atlantis? We are referring to intelligent life forming here, so this is sort of outside the box but definitely cannot be ignored as it is the first step for life, just not on a frozen planet with 1 vent and what ever, this could be theorized till the cows come home, lets stick to what we know?. 


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  Reply # 2167003 24-Jan-2019 15:34
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  Reply # 2167008 24-Jan-2019 15:43
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Coil:

 

For highly functioning intelligent life to form and flourish you need the conditions that we have currently, those conditions are found in multiple different solar systems.

 

 

I recall either Carl Sagan or Brian Cox on this.  We need the environment, yes. BUT, there is a KEY other thing we need, and that is TIME. 99% of life that Earth has ever had is already extinct. Things happen that wipe many creatures out. We still have a few dinosaurs despite the Yucatan meteor, such as crocs. Some that can manage underground, some that can hibernate. Evolution can give us humans but you have to live long enough to evolve. How we have evolved is quite staggering. Hominids date back a few million years (apes), homosapiens 200,000 years. Now we land stuff on comets and asteroids. We needed time, and the time before apes to evolve to that family. A meteor could have erased that. Climate Change might, if we destroy our environment before we learn to buy another home to ruin. But time seems a key ingredient, enough to allow evolution to bake us into a finished product. If you have a stable diverse goldilocks environment you can create all sorts of life.


gzt

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  Reply # 2167009 24-Jan-2019 15:45
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