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Fred99
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  #2325738 27-Sep-2019 09:39
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Dingbatt:
Fred99:

 

Dingbatt:

 

 

 

Wow. I guess you must be serious about this stuff then. To go against the primary drive of all living things to procreate and continue their branch of the species.

 

 

 

Not "all living things" need to reproduce in order to benefit the survival of their genes - look at a beehive. (Or from a human civilization perspective competing for  resources - an army).

 

 

 

 

 



Sorry, so are you suggesting that anyone who decides to not have children is a drone?

 

No. I'm pointing out that what you're arguing - that a free choice made by an individual to "sacrifice" what you fallaciously claim is the primary drive of all living things is not correct - and gave you a couple of examples. One where evolution has resulted in non-reproducing individuals as a survival advantage for the species, the other with humans where when the going gets tough, it seems to be to easy to convince individuals to go and fight other (usually less closely genetically related) humans to the death (and risk death and thus the possibility to not pass on their individual genes). Tribalism seems to be an innate primitive instinctive behaviour of humans, for better or (mainly) worse. We're a social species. 


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MikeB4
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  #2325740 27-Sep-2019 09:39
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If I were younger I am not sure I would bring children into this mess. I have enough worries about how my kids and grandchildren are going to get now. It really upsets me thinking of what they are going to have to deal with and what sort of life they will have. It actually gets me quite depressed.

This is a serious Post.

Rikkitic
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  #2325752 27-Sep-2019 09:53
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I clearly remember consciously deciding, even as a teenager, that I never wanted to have children. Even 60 years ago I felt that this world was one I did not want to inflict on another human being. Of course that was during the MAD days. Now we have climate change, and maybe even a return to MAD. Things don't seem to have improved much.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 




Dingbatt
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  #2325755 27-Sep-2019 09:57
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Fred99:

Dingbatt:
Fred99:


Dingbatt:


 


Wow. I guess you must be serious about this stuff then. To go against the primary drive of all living things to procreate and continue their branch of the species.


 


Not "all living things" need to reproduce in order to benefit the survival of their genes - look at a beehive. (Or from a human civilization perspective competing for  resources - an army).


 


 




Sorry, so are you suggesting that anyone who decides to not have children is a drone?


No. I'm pointing out that what you're arguing - that a free choice made by an individual to "sacrifice" what you fallaciously claim is the primary drive of all living things is not correct - and gave you a couple of examples. One where evolution has resulted in non-reproducing individuals as a survival advantage for the species, the other with humans where when the going gets tough, it seems to be to easy to convince individuals to go and fight other (usually less closely genetically related) humans to the death (and risk death and thus the possibility to not pass on their individual genes). Tribalism seems to be an innate primitive instinctive behaviour of humans, for better or (mainly) worse. We're a social species. 



So, in typical fashion, you are picking the fly-do out of the pepper to subvert the primary point of the comment. In that case replace "all living things" with "mammals" although I'm sure there are plenty of non-mammalian examples that are just as valid.
However, I see your point, I see a lot of 'hive mentality' in this thread.




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Fred99
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  #2325769 27-Sep-2019 10:25
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Dingbatt: 

So, in typical fashion, you are picking the fly-do out of the pepper to subvert the primary point of the comment.

 

What "typical fashion"?

 

The primary point in your comment was logically fallacious - so don't expect it to go unchallenged, then defend yourself by claiming that I'm nitpicking.

 

In any case, effectively arguing that the choice of an individual not to breed (for any reason) is going against "nature" in an arguably overpopulated world - seems to be a very silly position to base any argument. Our species is hardly under threat of extinction due to people consciously choosing not to have kids. Probably the reverse.

 

 

 

 


frankv
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  #2325770 27-Sep-2019 10:25
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tdgeek:

 

 

The planet will recover in its own good time once we're all gone.

 

 

It will, nothing is more certain.

 

 

The concept of post-human recovery doesn't apply to planets (or anything else). Earth will change state from warm to cold and back again, dry to wet to dry and back again. Once people are gone, there's no-one to care, no measure of "good" or "bad". Mars is cold and dry, Venus is hot and wet... these are only "bad" compared to Earth in that people can't survive on them. They just are what they are.

 

 


floydbloke
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  #2325778 27-Sep-2019 10:37
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

The planet will recover in its own good time once we're all gone.

 

 

It will, nothing is more certain.

 

 

The concept of post-human recovery doesn't apply to planets (or anything else). Earth will change state from warm to cold and back again, dry to wet to dry and back again. Once people are gone, there's no-one to care, no measure of "good" or "bad". Mars is cold and dry, Venus is hot and wet... these are only "bad" compared to Earth in that people can't survive on them. They just are what they are.

 

 

 

 

Difference between Earth and the others though is that the odds are good that another intelligent life-form with opposable digits will evolve again on Earth.  I wonder if they will ever be able to detect that we were here before them.  Be nice if we could leave them a message so they don't repeat our mistakes.





I've joined a carpenters course.  Haven't made anything yet....we've only just begun.

 

 




MikeB4
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  #2325784 27-Sep-2019 10:44
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I am forever hopeful that we can get through this and save our only home. And with that I am unsubscribing from this thread as it is upsetting me too much.


Rikkitic
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  #2325843 27-Sep-2019 11:22
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floydbloke:

 

Difference between Earth and the others though is that the odds are good that another intelligent life-form with opposable digits will evolve again on Earth.  I wonder if they will ever be able to detect that we were here before them.  Be nice if we could leave them a message so they don't repeat our mistakes.

 

 

That message is on the moon. Also, there is a car orbiting the sun somewhere. Whether they last as anything identifiably artificial for the tens of millions of years or longer that evolution will need to develop technology again is the question. I remember reading somewhere that fossilised beer can tabs would last at least as long as dinosaur bones have and might leave the strongest clue that we were once here.

 

 

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


frankv
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  #2325845 27-Sep-2019 11:25
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kingdragonfly:
tdgeek: What has been designed uses spent uranium.


Bill Gates's Experimental Nuclear Power Plant Halts Construction in China

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a25728221/terrapower-china-bill-gates-trump/

 

I'm still trying to figure out Gates's motivation in this. If he *really* wanted to get that reactor built, he could give the whole thing away (e.g. Open Source)... it's 1% of his wealth, so it would be like me giving away a car. In fact, probably less impact, given he would still have more money left than he can spend in his entire life. So there must be a profit (but why? since he already has more than he can spend) or power and control or narcissism motive. He could still get that by moving to China and running a Chinese company, completely out of reach of Trump.

 

And why China? What are the regulatory and other problems that prevent building it in the USA? Are there in fact safety or pollution or human rights problems about which China is less restrictive?

 

 


SJB

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  #2325847 27-Sep-2019 11:29
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I saw a programme on IPlayer about the future of the solar system and for a few million years towards the end of the Sun's life the outer planets will be in the Goldilocks zone so maybe life will flourish there for a while. Of course the downside is that the Earth will be hotter than Mercury and we will be long gone but hey, you can't have all ways.


tdgeek
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  #2325853 27-Sep-2019 11:35
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frankv:

 

kingdragonfly:
tdgeek: What has been designed uses spent uranium.


Bill Gates's Experimental Nuclear Power Plant Halts Construction in China

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a25728221/terrapower-china-bill-gates-trump/

 

I'm still trying to figure out Gates's motivation in this. If he *really* wanted to get that reactor built, he could give the whole thing away (e.g. Open Source)... it's 1% of his wealth, so it would be like me giving away a car. In fact, probably less impact, given he would still have more money left than he can spend in his entire life. So there must be a profit (but why? since he already has more than he can spend) or power and control or narcissism motive. He could still get that by moving to China and running a Chinese company, completely out of reach of Trump.

 

And why China? What are the regulatory and other problems that prevent building it in the USA? Are there in fact safety or pollution or human rights problems about which China is less restrictive?

 

 

 

 

Philanthropy and climate change. There has been no innovation for 25 years and only China is full steam ahead building reactors these days. Gates is giving his money away as is Warren Buffett. Id suggest China is easier to consent and build, they just get it done, and unlike the US, nuclear is a current activity as far as build goes, in the US its not


Fred99
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  #2325879 27-Sep-2019 12:03
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frankv:

 

I'm still trying to figure out Gates's motivation in this. If he *really* wanted to get that reactor built, he could give the whole thing away (e.g. Open Source)...

 

 

I presume that he'd be rather wary of "giving away" technology as means to evade policy that was enacted to prevent commercial sharing of that information - which could be assessed by the Trumpian regime as being at risk of diversion to (Chinese) military or damaging to U.S. national and economic security.

 

He'd probably be charged with treason.


frankv
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  #2325880 27-Sep-2019 12:03
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tdgeek:

 

frankv:

 

kingdragonfly:
tdgeek: What has been designed uses spent uranium.


Bill Gates's Experimental Nuclear Power Plant Halts Construction in China

 

I'm still trying to figure out Gates's motivation in this.

 

And why China?

 

 

Philanthropy and climate change. There has been no innovation for 25 years and only China is full steam ahead building reactors these days. Gates is giving his money away as is Warren Buffett. 

 

 

Not so much. I did some reading around, and it appears that the $1B isn't all his... it's other people's money. Presumably the Chinese Govt put some money in too.

 

 

Id suggest China is easier to consent and build, they just get it done, and unlike the US, nuclear is a current activity as far as build goes, in the US its not

 

 

One man's "easy to consent" is another man's "unbridled opportunity to exploit". Just as "they just get it done" can be viewed as authoritarianism in action.

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2325934 27-Sep-2019 12:38
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frankv:

 

 

 

Not so much. I did some reading around, and it appears that the $1B isn't all his... it's other people's money. Presumably the Chinese Govt put some money in too.

 

 

 

Id suggest China is easier to consent and build, they just get it done, and unlike the US, nuclear is a current activity as far as build goes, in the US its not

 

 

 

One man's "easy to consent" is another man's "unbridled opportunity to exploit". Just as "they just get it done" can be viewed as authoritarianism in action.

 

 

 

 

Its no secret that the foundation raises money. Buffet gave it a great deal I cannot recall if that was the nuclear or the polio. He's not out to make money, he is out to put back his mega billions into philanthropy, Id suggest he could not care less who does what as long as it gets done for humankind. Its a wonderful thing. He never stops, this time its not MS he works 24/7 on its us. We should feel lucky


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