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  #2424886 21-Feb-2020 10:47
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I was called a climate change denier by some mates at party last week. I said, I'm not a denier, I believe in climate change, but disagree with the alarmist rhetoric and hypocrisy by everyone on the matter.

I suggested to my two mates, who are builders, that they sell their Rangers and take public transport, and a bunch of other stuff like stop eating meat etc....yeah, didn't think they would.

The big issue is overpopulation.

Nigeria is growing at more than 3% population per year and estimated to have 400 million people by 2050. Just one country.


Add the rest up, it's only going one way.

Who gets to decide who should and shouldn't breed?

Will we do 'everything we can'?

Nope. Middle class westerners will just be guilt tripped into sacrificing our lifestyles while the world around us burns.

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Varkk
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  #2424904 21-Feb-2020 11:08
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Overpopulation is not the problem. Those 400 million you predict in Nigeria will still have a lower carbon out put than a few rich people living in a first world nation. Worldwide the richest 10% of people are responsible for 50% of carbon emissions. The poorest 50% are around 10%.


KiwiTT
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  #2424949 21-Feb-2020 11:24
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Varkk:

 

Overpopulation is not the problem. Those 400 million you predict in Nigeria will still have a lower carbon out put than a few rich people living in a first world nation. Worldwide the richest 10% of people are responsible for 50% of carbon emissions. The poorest 50% are around 10%.

 

I agree.  That is probably the situation now and in the past

 

However, it is when these extra people continue develop to western levels of society, they will need massive amounts of energy and the cheapest by far is coal.  Take China as an example; it has a rapidly growing middle-class, millions are coming in from the farms into the cities to get more income and a better life, then subsistence, and coal use is one again increasing there.  India is also growing its middle class, as is south east asia, and it wont be long before Africa etc. will follow suit in the coming decades.




Rikkitic
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  #2424957 21-Feb-2020 11:34
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I think it is both. Affluent societies consume more resources and produce more emissions (air-conditioning, anyone?), but impoverished societies do it more inefficiently. From documentaries I have seen, a real problem for poor rural people in Nigeria and elsewhere is obtaining fuel for cooking, which has resulted in forest destruction for firewood, and all the knock-on damage that comes from that.

 

 





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frankv
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  #2424970 21-Feb-2020 12:12
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KiwiTT:

 

However, it is when these extra people continue develop to western levels of society, they will need massive amounts of energy and the cheapest by far is coal. 

 

 

Right.

 

One of the outcomes of a western level society is better health care and longer life expectancy. Perhaps what we're seeing in Nigeria is due to better sanitation, health care, etc whilst old attitudes to fertility and family size persist. However, elsewhere western level living standards are fairly quickly followed by a reduction in birth rate and slowed population growth.

 

It was only about a century ago that that large families (and high infant mortality and high mortality overall) were the norm in Europe. Nowadays, many European countries don't produce enough children to replace their parents. Over all the EU the natural population change (i.e. excluding migration) is -1.0% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union

 

Birth rates in India and China have been falling rapidly in the last 50 years or so.

 

 


Geektastic
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  #2425195 21-Feb-2020 22:41
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I picked this up in the Daily Telegraph

 

 

 

Coal and wood fires banned in fight to cut emissions
End of the roaring hearth as fears are raised that pollution move will hit rural homes

 

 

 

"The ban also includes wet wood, and could pave the way for the end of all indoor stoves.

 

Wood burning stoves and coal fires are the biggest single source of small particle pollutants PM2.5, which have been linked to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases and cancer, emitting three times as much as road transport.

 

A quarter of all sales of wood for domestic use are from wet wood, which is usually available in small amounts and can be more convenient than dry wood, but creates twice as many pollutants.

 

The ban will mostly affect households in rural areas, as most cities are in smoke control areas where the use of coal is already restricted."

 

 

 

I wonder whether NZ will make moves to follow, as I am sure wood burning stoves are more common here - and certainly out here in the Wairarapa, the pall of woodsmoke hanging over the towns in winter is both visible as a cloud when the weather is right and like driving into an old bonfire!






kingdragonfly
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  #2425224 22-Feb-2020 07:44
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Azzura: Youtube video

I'm not trying to punch holes in the entertaining video, but it is from the dramatic American TV series "The Newsroom".

Maggie’s potentially juicy EPA story goes completely off the rails when Richard Westbrook (Paul Lieberstein) goes off the deep end during his live, on-air interview with Will. He essentially posits that it’s too late for mankind, we’re all doomed, and there’s nothing that can be done to save the day.

There's plenty of real science out there.

The Union of Concerned Scientist is always a good resources.



  #2425243 22-Feb-2020 08:09
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Varkk:

 

Overpopulation is not the problem. Those 400 million you predict in Nigeria will still have a lower carbon out put than a few rich people living in a first world nation. Worldwide the richest 10% of people are responsible for 50% of carbon emissions. The poorest 50% are around 10%.

 

 

Who is responsible for the other 40% of emissions? 

 

Those poor people don't intend on being poor forever. As their standard of living increases, so does their carbon footprint. Look at the number of (coal) power stations being built in China and India, needed to fuel the growing middle class. 

 

I'm more concerned with pollution, than 'climate change'. 

 

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers; 8 in Asia and 2 in Africa.

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/

 

 


Geektastic
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  #2425334 22-Feb-2020 12:05
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MileHighKiwi:

Varkk:


Overpopulation is not the problem. Those 400 million you predict in Nigeria will still have a lower carbon out put than a few rich people living in a first world nation. Worldwide the richest 10% of people are responsible for 50% of carbon emissions. The poorest 50% are around 10%.



Who is responsible for the other 40% of emissions? 


Those poor people don't intend on being poor forever. As their standard of living increases, so does their carbon footprint. Look at the number of (coal) power stations being built in China and India, needed to fuel the growing middle class. 


I'm more concerned with pollution, than 'climate change'. 


90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers; 8 in Asia and 2 in Africa.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/


 



Also when the current poor aren’t poor they’ll be replaced with new poor people. Poverty is relative.





Azzura
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  #2426174 24-Feb-2020 09:50
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Azzura:

Climate Change Is NZ subsidising utes?



Everything relating to human existence (population) is linked to everything in a big circle of cause and effect. Can't remove the co2 without removing the humans. Now whether co2 is the major/only cause of climate change, who knows for sure. It seems to be.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Obraik
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  #2426192 24-Feb-2020 10:25
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Azzura:

 

Climate Change Is NZ subsidising utes?

 

 

It's a bit silly how prevalent this is now. I usually see a few utes on my work commute for businesses that I wouldn't associate with needing a ute (Accountants? Recruitment agency?)...it seems pretty clear they're doing it for the FBT exemptions. 


kingdragonfly
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  #2437953 14-Mar-2020 14:33
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Lots of discussion about greener energy. Wind and solar are actually cheaper to build than a coal fired plant, but how to store the energy?

The Future Of Energy Storage Beyond Lithium Ion


Rikkitic
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  #2438004 14-Mar-2020 15:05
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kingdragonfly: Lots of discussion about greener energy. Wind and solar are actually cheaper to build than a coal fired plant, but how to store the energy?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/business/orkney-hydrogen-power/index.html

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Dinga96
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  #2438144 14-Mar-2020 17:47
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

A quarter of all sales of wood for domestic use are from wet wood, which is usually available in small amounts and can be more convenient than dry wood, but creates twice as many pollutants.

 

 

 

 

Geektastic

 

I find it hard to imagine wet wood being "more convenient". Its more a situation people either get a poor load of wood, ie wet or they ordered their firewood to late perhaps and that the supplier only has green wood left. Where does "more convenient" come into play. Perhaps for the supplier you mean. Care to enlighten us.


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