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Rikkitic
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  #2563242 13-Sep-2020 11:18
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With all the 'unprecedented' things happening here and elsewhere, the climate change debate seems to have faded into the background somewhat. Yet if the raging wildfires in America are indications of anything, it must be this. Another 'unprecedented' is the timing and intensity of the American hurricane season. The governor of Washington State has just issued a blistering diatribe against those who still try to deny that climate change exists.

 

My sister happens to live in Oregon and while she is safe from the fires, she has not escaped the smoke. She has been sending me photos of the hazy sky and has commented on how much the smoke has dropped the temperature by blocking the sun. She says this demonstrates how easily volcanic eruptions could have triggered climate change and an ice age in the past (and a nuclear war might in the future). The point isn't so much whether the temperature goes up or down, but how these things interact and affect the environment we depend on.

 

What has struck me, and motivated me to restart this discussion, is how exactly everything that was being predicted just a couple years ago is coming to pass. At the moment it is the unparalleled wildfires. But it is also the heat waves, and the spread of tropical diseases, and the interruptions of food supplies, and the conflicts over fresh water, and all the other things that are happening exactly as it was said they would only a few years ago, except they are happening much faster than predicted.

 

Maybe the economic fallout from the pandemic will turn out to be a blessing in disguise if it slows the pace of the climate disaster. In any case, we should not let the fires and the storms (like the unexpectedly forceful typhoon that just sank the livestock ship) and the race demonstrations and the extremist violence and American politics and our own election and the pandemic and the unbelievable cascade of once in a hundred years events and catastrophes sweeping over us, make us forget the crucial underlying issues at the root of this all. The big one is climate change. It s real, it is devastating, and it is something to be taken very seriously.

 

 

 

   





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freitasm
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  #2563244 13-Sep-2020 11:24
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"How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled"

 

 

Laura Leebrick, a manager at Rogue Disposal & Recycling in southern Oregon, is standing on the end of its landfill watching an avalanche of plastic trash pour out of a semitrailer: containers, bags, packaging, strawberry containers, yogurt cups.

 

None of this plastic will be turned into new plastic things. All of it is buried.

 

"To me that felt like it was a betrayal of the public trust," she said. "I had been lying to people ... unwittingly."

 

Rogue, like most recycling companies, had been sending plastic trash to China, but when China shut its doors two years ago, Leebrick scoured the U.S. for buyers. She could find only someone who wanted white milk jugs. She sends the soda bottles to the state.

 

But when Leebrick tried to tell people the truth about burying all the other plastic, she says people didn't want to hear it.

 

"I remember the first meeting where I actually told a city council that it was costing more to recycle than it was to dispose of the same material as garbage," she says, "and it was like heresy had been spoken in the room: You're lying. This is gold. We take the time to clean it, take the labels off, separate it and put it here. It's gold. This is valuable."

 

But it's not valuable, and it never has been. And what's more, the makers of plastic — the nation's largest oil and gas companies — have known this all along, even as they spent millions of dollars telling the American public the opposite.

 





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Rikkitic
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  #2737904 2-Jul-2021 13:27
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tdgeek
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  #2737909 2-Jul-2021 13:36
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Rikkitic:

 

The truth about Exxon.

 

 

 

 

"I am deeply embarrassed by my comments and that I allowed myself to fall for Greenpeace's deception," McCoy said

 

I popped that into Google Translate and got

 

"I am deeply p!ssed that I allowed myself to be caught"   


Eva888
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  #2738018 2-Jul-2021 16:54
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Where’s some Kiwi ingenuity. Singapore is looking at using their waste plastic incorporated with bitumen to build roads.

Dingbatt
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  #2738026 2-Jul-2021 17:20
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Eva888: Where’s some Kiwi ingenuity. Singapore is looking at using their waste plastic incorporated with bitumen to build roads.

 

They currently burn their waste to produce electricity. And then use the remains for footpaths/roads.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Batman
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  #2738040 2-Jul-2021 17:59
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IMO the only guaranteed way is to have fewer humans.

 

But for every kid I don't have, people in the developing world are having upto 10-20. And their kid will do the same and so on.

 

I will get a vasectomy. When - umm ... soon ... ?





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




SJB

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  #2738045 2-Jul-2021 18:13
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Batman:

 

IMO the only guaranteed way is to have fewer humans.

 

But for every kid I don't have, people in the developing world are having upto 10-20. And their kid will do the same and so on.

 

I will get a vasectomy. When - umm ... soon ... ?

 

 

We need a pandemic with a high mortality rate and quickly.

 

 


Batman
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  #2738046 2-Jul-2021 18:19
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this is what humans manage to do. every single day.

 

you can drive all the electric cars you want, won't undo a single one of these things we manage to create.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/02/hundreds-of-dead-turtles-wash-ashore-in-sri-lanka-after-cargo-ship-wreck

 

 





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Dingbatt
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  #2738047 2-Jul-2021 18:20
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SJB:

 

We need a pandemic with a high mortality rate and quickly.

 



 

But not you. Right?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Rikkitic
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  #2738049 2-Jul-2021 18:27
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Batman:

 

IMO the only guaranteed way is to have fewer humans.

 

But for every kid I don't have, people in the developing world are having upto 10-20. And their kid will do the same and so on.

 

I will get a vasectomy. When - umm ... soon ... ?

 

 

This is not only incorrect, but probably racist. However many children you may or may not have, no place in the developing world will be multiplying that by 10 or 20 times. The only ones likely to come close are certain Mormon sects in Utah.

 

Reputable research has conclusively demonstrated that the best way to reduce the birth rate is to increase prosperity. Wherever income goes up, the birth rate goes down. Your comment is ignorant and unpleasant.

 

 





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Batman
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  #2738059 2-Jul-2021 19:10
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i am born in the developing world, donate money to the developing world, have a passport there, have untold relatives in developing world, and see the pollution we manage to create. we have no choice. without government championship, to exist we need to pollute. unfortunately the effects of climate change will hit us developing world the greatest. probably causing us to need pollute more to exist.

 

i'm not a climate scientist though, i could be wrong.





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Dingbatt
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  #2738066 2-Jul-2021 19:34
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Rikkitic:

 

Reputable research has conclusively demonstrated that the best way to reduce the birth rate is to increase prosperity. Wherever income goes up, the birth rate goes down. Your comment is ignorant and unpleasant.

 



 

Same as the link between access to cheap reliable energy and prosperity (and life expectancy and quality)?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Dingbatt
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  #2738069 2-Jul-2021 19:36
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Batman:

 

i'm not a climate scientist though, i could be wrong.

 



 

Wow, that’s not a sentence you see very often these days!





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Rikkitic
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  #2738145 2-Jul-2021 22:52
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Batman:

 

i am born in the developing world, donate money to the developing world, have a passport there, have untold relatives in developing world, and see the pollution we manage to create. we have no choice. without government championship, to exist we need to pollute. unfortunately the effects of climate change will hit us developing world the greatest. probably causing us to need pollute more to exist.

 

i'm not a climate scientist though, i could be wrong.

 

 

The problems of the world would be much easier to solve if there were substantially fewer people in it. There is no question about that. My issue is that whenever overpopulation is discussed, it always seems to come down on developing countries. ‘If only they didn’t produce so many children’, we moan. It has become a cliché, spoken mainly in the well-off part of the world where large families are less common.

 

What annoys me about this is that it has also become a convenient way of subtly shifting the blame. It implies that if the poor part of the world would just quit having so many babies, maybe we could keep our SUVs a little longer. Of course this is a lie based on faulty reasoning. But it sounds good to some people.

 

Increasingly, we are realising that we are all in this together, rich and poor. The specific issues may be different in different parts of the world, but we all bear equal responsibility for the problems we now face. If developing countries have too many children, developed ones consume too many resources and produce too much waste. We not only have to find solutions to these problems, we also have to find ways of better sharing the burden of them.

 

 





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