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  # 2278310 17-Jul-2019 14:20
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I'm not sure if buying a phone for the sole (or primary) purpose of using internet banking is necessarily the best investment (given the OP's reluctance to use internet-based banking), and would be a double whammy of mastering new technology (a phone) as well as a new interface (internet-based banking) - so perhaps the first step could be simply setting it up to use via a web browser on a computer?

 

Kiwibank's web-based interface is fine - I hardly ever use it, as their phone app is good enough to complete all day-to-day banking tasks and is much easier to log in (using a fingerprint - but it does the job.

 

The worst thing is their 2FA is stuck in the previous decade, with a question and answer based approach; they have introduced text-based 2FA for some transactions, I noticed.

 

And, as far as age goes, I only recently removed internet banking from my mother's iPad - she's been using it ok up until a couple of years ago, and she'll turn 85 this year. Her dementia, though, doesn't help her - I manage her finances and found I was regularly locked out due to too many incorrect log-in attempts... 




Lock him up!
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  # 2278414 17-Jul-2019 15:02
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Just to be clear, it is not that I can't do these things, just that I don't want to have to. As I have said, the system I use always worked perfectly up to this time. I was happy with it and I don't really want to have to mess with something new or different when what I had met my needs perfectly. If I have to, I will (obviously, since I have no choice), but I don't have to like it.

 

On a somewhat different but related note, I have to say I don't have a lot of trust in all the modern AI automated stuff. When I rang Kiwibank, I had to go through several layers of telling a computer what I wanted. I admit I was impressed. It didn't get a single thing wrong. But that is certainly not always my experience and as anyone who even glances at the news will know, it is not the experience of a lot of other people. You hear about things going wrong in a big way almost on a daily basis, some hacker-related but a lot just systems that fall apart or don't work properly. Sometimes the people who programme them don't have much common sense. Sometimes the systems are just too complex and collapse under their own weight. We have had many examples of that just here in New Zealand. 

 

What I have noticed time and again, is that there always seems to be a blanket assumption on the part of those who manage and operate such systems, that nothing will ever go wrong. When something does go wrong, they are at a loss. Just look at how much money has been wasted on big automation projects here that had to be scrapped or completely redone. Novopay, anyone? 

 

On a much smaller scale, things sometimes go wrong on personal computing devices. Software that always worked suddenly crashes. The OS starts behaving in a random manner. Other strange things happen. After the usual malware checks, it is time to start updating all the drivers, running diagnostic software, take things out of memory one at a time with Task Manager, and so forth. This goes with the territory. I shudder to think of what happens with something a million times bigger and more complex. I know something about this because I was a software hacker in the days of MS-DOS. I enjoy technical things. But my years of experience taught me not to trust them. 

 

Try arguing with an AI some time. It is the most exasperating experience imaginable. Real people can be just as bad, as I experienced today, but at least people can innovate solutions, or step outside their programming, or (sometimes) be just a teeny weeny bit flexible. People can exercise common sense, if they have any. All an AI can do is keep looping. I dread the day when something does go wrong on one of my infrequent transactions, or my account gets cleaned out by a scammer, and I have to argue with an AI to get my money back. In my old age I just don't want to have to deal with this kind of crap.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2278415 17-Jul-2019 15:08
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I have my 82 year old mother setup with Westpac app on her iPhone. She loves the ease of doing things now.... Just saying...



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  # 2278418 17-Jul-2019 15:14
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zocster: I have my 82 year old mother setup with Westpac app on her iPhone. She loves the ease of doing things now.... Just saying...

 

I don't have an iPhone or an Internet-savvy child to help me with it. Just saying.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2278421 17-Jul-2019 15:34
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afe66: My recent frustration is the closure of multiple location to a central hub in business area which doesn't have an ATM that accepts cheques. Like all the other banks..

Now I have to specifically head into business area drive round and round trying to find a park to deposit a cheque for a job that took less time to do then bank the cheque. And I cant deposit the cheque out of our when lots of parking because the ancient ATM.

(Some customers still insist on paying me in cheques)

 

Your choice to accept them without charging a fee for that hassle ontop of the amount.

 

You can post checks into the bank, which is what I do. They process them after a few days and they appear in the account.





Richard rich.ms

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  # 2278424 17-Jul-2019 15:45
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MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:

 

Ridiculous to penalise a customer simply because they do not happen to have made a transaction in 7 days. You'll just have to go to the dairy and buy a loaf of bread or something then ring them - but you should not need to.

 

 

 

It's all too common. My brother had huge difficulty getting an insurance payout in the UK because he did not have a UK bank account, having lived in the USA for 20+ years. They simply couldn't cope with a relatively simple deviation from their norms.

 

 

 

This sort of thing makes me want to live on a private island and never interact with the world ever again sometimes!

 

 

 

 

You do, it is the Wairarapa wilderness. I would call it the wild west but it's in the east 😇😁

 

 

 

 

After dark in Masterton, you would not be far wrong! I stay out due to not (yet) owning body armour...!






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  # 2278427 17-Jul-2019 15:57
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Rikkitic:

 

Sometimes the people who programme them don't have much common sense. Sometimes the systems are just too complex and collapse under their own weight. We have had many examples of that just here in New Zealand. 

 

What I have noticed time and again, is that there always seems to be a blanket assumption on the part of those who manage and operate such systems, that nothing will ever go wrong.

 

 

From my experience.... sometimes systems are so complex,  so you concentrate on all getting all the hard stuff to work OK, at the expense of seemingly simple things. Can't see the forest for the trees is a good analogy. 

 

Developers don't assume things will not go wrong, but often their budgets are just so restricted they don't get time to do the full job. Heres looking at you "XXXXXXXX" project manager who loses the plot and swears at you if they don't like the actual time something will take to do properly!!!  Worst project manager ever, she did more damage to the software than anyone. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2278431 17-Jul-2019 16:05
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Rikkitic:

 

zocster: I have my 82 year old mother setup with Westpac app on her iPhone. She loves the ease of doing things now.... Just saying...

 

I don't have an iPhone or an Internet-savvy child to help me with it. Just saying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do not require either of those things. You have stated you have the skill and you have the equipment, it's now just a matter of will :)

 

 


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  # 2278432 17-Jul-2019 16:05
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Rikkitic:

 

Just to be clear, it is not that I can't do these things, just that I don't want to have to. As I have said, the system I use always worked perfectly up to this time. I was happy with it and I don't really want to have to mess with something new or different when what I had met my needs perfectly. If I have to, I will (obviously, since I have no choice), but I don't have to like it.  ...

 

 

As a fellow pensioner (who hates iPhones with a passion), I strongly recommend (desktop) Internet banking - I have used it for 15 years plus, with absolutely no problems. "It just works."

 

I don't do iPhone banking.

 

I visit a bank building about twice a year, usually for international transactions.

 

Remember that cheque accounts will soon become a thing of the past, and that the number of bricks-and-mortar bank branches is shrinking.

 

Come on in, the water's fine.  🙂





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SJB

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  # 2278436 17-Jul-2019 16:16
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If an app has say 100,000 lines of code and 1% are wrong that's 1,000 lines with potential unpredictable results. Now that may be in exception code rather than the normal paths but that's where a lot of non-tech savy users end up.

 

I'm don't think any experienced IT person ever assumes nothing will go wrong. It's just impossible to cover all the potential paths.

 

On another note, it's starting to irritate me when web sites want to send a verification text to my phone. I have never had a cell phone because I live in a dead spot and can only receive anything if I care to go 5kms down the road. I'm at home most of the time so that is not particularly convenient.


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  # 2278438 17-Jul-2019 16:25
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You could always pick up one of these

https://www.harveynorman.co.nz/computers/tablet-and-accessories/tablets/lenovo-tab-e7-7-tablet.html

Use it just for streaming apps and your banking.

Clint

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  # 2278444 17-Jul-2019 16:39
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Rikkitic:
Just to be clear, it is not that I can't do these things, just that I don't want to have to. As I have said, the system I use always worked perfectly up to this time. I was happy with it and I don't really want to have to mess with something new or different when what I had met my needs perfectly. If I have to, I will (obviously, since I have no choice), but I don't have to like it.  ...

 

 

 

Sideface:
Remember that cheque accounts will soon become a thing of the past, and that the number of bricks-and-mortar bank branches is shrinking.

 

This.

 

Rikkitic, I really feel for you, but unfortunately the day of the cheque appears to be rapidly coming to an end, at least in NZ.
KB have already announced their End Of Life - 28th February 2020, seven and a bit months from now.
If you take your business to a different bank, I suspect you will gain yourself at most another twelve to eighteen month's grace, unless perhaps there is a pitchfork-and-burning-torches reaction to KB taking cheques away.

 

I'm afraid that unfortunately, "personalised banking" will very soon mean an interactive chat session on your computer or phone, as more and more bricks and mortar branches will be closed. At least a sort-of banking service will be available to KB customers through the agencies embedded in bookstores. Customers of the big 4 Aussie banks won't even have that.

 

I haven't given in to a banking app on my phone, but I find PC-based Internet Banking works pretty well and doesn't hurt too much.


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  # 2278447 17-Jul-2019 16:43
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Kiwi Bank is going to be the first out the door with getting rid of cheques too.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/112775502/kiwibank-to-ditch-cheques-risks-backlash

 

 

 

I write a cheque once every 5 to 10 years, usually to buy next car, it is above the amount allowed by bill pay, credit card surcharges rule out paying that way, so without a cheque book will best be going to the bank to get a 20k plus suit case of money?

 

For a tradesman that comes to house and wants to be paid straight away can do the under the mattress method instead of writing cheque.

 

 


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  # 2278448 17-Jul-2019 16:44
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Rikkitic:

 

If they had said government regulation was the reason, I could at least understand that, though I wouldn't like it, but they didn't.  

 

@michaelmurfy: I know you work for a bank and I'm sure everything you say is true. But I am elderly and I carry all the baggage that goes with that. I know some (mostly obsolete) technical stuff from my younger days but I don't understand modern security and I don't trust what I don't understand. I have never owned a cell phone and have no idea how to use one. I'm sure security at the bank end is perfect, but my equipment is old and so is the OS I prefer. My security is actually pretty good because of the way I use the Internet and I do run checks and keep an eye on things but I ensure on purpose that nothing of value can be accessed via my computer. This gives me peace of mind because there is no way to get at my money except to go through me. It is what I feel comfortable with and how I prefer things. If it all goes pear-shaped, I would probably eventually get my money back from the bank, but I don't want to have the hassle. I am old and tired and all my energy goes to Geekzone.

 

 

I can understand (as a 60-something oldie) your frustration and your preference for keeping everything done the same way that you have always done it because that works.  However bank users are using Internet Banking and it appears to meet your needs.  Change cannot always be resisted forever.  My bet is that continuing as you are with Kiwibank (or any bank) is a recipe for continued frustration because you are part of a shrinking user base that does not use Internet Banking.

 

If you can post here you have you have all the tools and knowledge required to get to your bank's internet logon page and start the process.  Using it is easy.  Aside from password/pin requirements the risks are all with your bank.  You do NOT have to learn anything, all you do need to is read webpages and click buttons.  That is all there is to it.

 

Make the change soon at a pace of your choice.  Either that or put up with the frustration you have experienced and either the withdrawal of these services or punitive pricing of these transactions in the future.





--

OldGeek.


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  # 2278512 17-Jul-2019 17:22
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Why not use TSB Bank? They are supposed to have the best customer service from any bank in NZ, and there is usually no hold time at all when phoning. You can also still make deposits via using TSB bank, via  kiwibank and NZ post branches.  Personally I have been with them for my everyday account since 1994 with no problems. The reason switched to them was a fee free account if you keep at least 5k in the account, and that included cheques. However I noticed that they have now begun charging an annual fee if you want a cheque book, so cancelled it, as I don't usually use cheques these days.


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