Movie set tragedy

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Ge0rge

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#2800286 24-Oct-2021 13:18

Essentially you've just explained, with good detail and accuracy, why Neb is incorrect - semi and full auto gas cycle weapons work perfectly fine using blanks with the addition of a Blank Firing Adaptor (bfa) or blank barrel. The military tend to use an obvious, often brightly coloured bfa for safety reasons however for props / movies the adaptor can be made practically invisible.
For the vast majority of "movie weapons" that most people will recognise (AR / AK), there is no reason for live rounds to be anywhere near a set.

Seeing as a revolver uses a mechanical linkage to retract the hammer and rotate the cylinder, blanks work perfectly fine - there's no reason to use live rounds.

Jase2985

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#2800381 24-Oct-2021 16:09

Geektastic: I recall from my days working for the Ministry of Defence that soldiers on exercise using blanks always had yellow inserts in the barrel on their weapon. This visually confirmed the weapon had blanks loaded to help prevent public alarm and prevented debris discharge but not gas discharge.

having a yellow adapter does not prevent you from inserting live rounds into the weapon though, all it does it help with the gas pressure as mentioned above, to help cycle the action.

i believe the only weapon that has a fitting to stop live rounds being inserted when firing blanks is the 50cal (M2HB) heavy machine gun. has a different barrel, a barrel insert and an adapter that fits in the feed system to prevent live rounds being inserted.

Debris can also still be ejected, its just the hole they can be ejected from is now smaller or it forces it off to the side depending on the weapon used.

Geektastic

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#2800408 24-Oct-2021 18:02

Jase2985:
Geektastic: I recall from my days working for the Ministry of Defence that soldiers on exercise using blanks always had yellow inserts in the barrel on their weapon. This visually confirmed the weapon had blanks loaded to help prevent public alarm and prevented debris discharge but not gas discharge.

having a yellow adapter does not prevent you from inserting live rounds into the weapon though, all it does it help with the gas pressure as mentioned above, to help cycle the action.

i believe the only weapon that has a fitting to stop live rounds being inserted when firing blanks is the 50cal (M2HB) heavy machine gun. has a different barrel, a barrel insert and an adapter that fits in the feed system to prevent live rounds being inserted.

Debris can also still be ejected, its just the hole they can be ejected from is now smaller or it forces it off to the side depending on the weapon used.

You could insert them but I for one wouldn't want to be within 500m of it when the trigger was pulled!

Jase2985

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#2800414 24-Oct-2021 18:14

Geektastic:
You could insert them but I for one wouldn't want to be within 500m of it when the trigger was pulled!

yep but again doesnt stop the unknowing doing it. or by accident.

neb

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#2800420 24-Oct-2021 18:34

Ge0rge: Really? You might need to go tell the military who've been making it work for multiple decades...

The military use special blank firing adapters that disperse the plugs and hot gases fired from the blanks and build up enough gas pressure in the barrel to cycle the action. Having a honkin' great brightly coloured lump plugging up the front of the barrel and gases and debris venting to the sides will upset the (cough) "realism" that Hollywood is aiming for.

Ge0rge: Absolutely incorrect.

If you leave stuff like this out of your replies then you end up with a lot less egg on your face when you're wrong. See @Geektastic's reply for an example of how to say the same thing civilly.

Ge0rge

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#2800491 24-Oct-2021 20:13

neb:

The military use special blank firing adapters that disperse the plugs and hot gases fired from the blanks and build up enough gas pressure in the barrel to cycle the action. Having a honkin' great brightly coloured lump plugging up the front of the barrel and gases and debris venting to the sides will upset the (cough) "realism" that Hollywood is aiming for.

Ge0rge: Absolutely incorrect.

If you leave stuff like this out of your replies then you end up with a lot less egg on your face when you're wrong. See @Geektastic's reply for an example of how to say the same thing civilly.

When you leave bits of the original message out, you remove the context. You made the statement that "auto and semi-auto weapons won't cycle with blanks" which is fundamentally wrong, hence my statement that you are incorrect - not sure why you think I'm "wrong" or have "egg on my face".

The fact that you seem to think there needs to be a "honkin' greatly coloured lump" on the end of the weapon in order for it to cycle shows me your lack of understanding of how the cycle of operations actually works.

That "lump" is there as a visual indicator to staff and other participants in military exercises. There's no reason it can't be a very small, discreet, and almost invisible plug - such as with the Steyr F88 (particularly after multiple rounds - the red paint would burn off and the carbon would coat the bfa black and it would blend into the flash supressor) and it was for this reason that they would occasionally be "overlooked" when switching from blank to live - with catastrophic results for the barrel of the weapon.

I stand by my statement that you were wrong when you stated that auto and semi-auto weapons won't cycle with blanks.

As has been mentioned above though, it is rather irrelevant in this particular instance, as the weapon involved was a revolver - which uses the mechanical action of the trigger to cycle the cylinder - thus the cycle of ops is not affected by ammunition type.

networkn

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#2801790 27-Oct-2021 09:35

I see a member of the Trump family have made and are selling T-Shirts making fun of the situation. Regardless of how much you might hate someone, why kind of psychopath would do that?

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