Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17
2078 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #399197 2-Nov-2010 16:06
Send private message

tardtasticx:
BraaiGuy: 

I think NZ, AUS etc is very lenient with its laws already. Unfair is what happens in most countries where being gay is considered illegal.



We're lenient with our laws? Do you think we should be saying "oh thank you mr law maker for allowing us to be who we are without the risk of being thrown in jail or killed because we prefer carrots to rug." Which would you rather say when introducing your partner, "he/she is my husband/wife" or "he/she is my life partner" 


My view is that marriage is something that happens in a church (and not a registry office, garden etc).

I don't see anything wrong with using the term husband/wife though if you've had a civil union.  Partner is such a stupid term as it sounds like you are in business with them.  Life partner is just a clumsy fix.

Husband/wife or boyfriend/girlfriend is much more easily understood.



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #399200 2-Nov-2010 16:09
Send private message

jaymz:
tardtasticx:
BraaiGuy: 

I think NZ, AUS etc is very lenient with its laws already. Unfair is what happens in most countries where being gay is considered illegal.



We're lenient with our laws? Do you think we should be saying "oh thank you mr law maker for allowing us to be who we are without the risk of being thrown in jail or killed because we prefer carrots to rug." Which would you rather say when introducing your partner, "he/she is my husband/wife" or "he/she is my life partner" 


In a word (and my opinion), yes.

To be honest I am thankful that we live in a country that is more open than others.  We have rules and laws that protect all people living in NZ.

Back to the original post, is the bigger issue marriage or child adoption?  As I have mentioned earlier, there is nothing stopping a person adopting a child in NZ.  As long as their meet the requirements of the state (income, criminal record, fines, etc).

Marriage between two gay people will come, it will just take time for people to change their views and then the laws.



Well the biggest issue I guess is marriage because without that we cant adopt children. If they allow gay marriage then we should then be allowed to adopt? So thats the biggest issue then 




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


 
 
 
 


1094 posts

Uber Geek


  #399201 2-Nov-2010 16:11
Send private message

To be fair, a person who is gay can adopt a child (as per my previous post)

The issue is if a gay couple is in a civil union only one person will have legal guardian status over the child.
Which in turn means a gay couple can adopt a child.

Marriage is another thing though. Unfortunately only time and peoples views changing will solve that one.



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #399203 2-Nov-2010 16:15
Send private message

jaymz: To be fair, a person who is gay can adopt a child (as per my previous post)

The issue is if a gay couple is in a civil union only one person will have legal guardian status over the child.
Which in turn means a gay couple can adopt a child.

Marriage is another thing though. Unfortunately only time and peoples views changing will solve that one.


Yeh we know that one person can adopt a child but thats not the point, the point is that a couple cannot adopt together and have joint guardianship of the child. That means that the other parent is left with the label of caregiver. 




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


2078 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #399204 2-Nov-2010 16:16
Send private message

tardtasticx: Well the biggest issue I guess is marriage because without that we cant adopt children. If they allow gay marriage then we should then be allowed to adopt? So thats the biggest issue then 


I think there are two issues, one is that the adoption law is out of date and needs to be revised and the other is marriage.

3310 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #399207 2-Nov-2010 16:20
Send private message

tardtasticx: We're lenient with our laws? Do you think we should be saying "oh thank you mr law maker for allowing us to be who we are without the risk of being thrown in jail or killed because we prefer carrots to rug." Which would you rather say when introducing your partner, "he/she is my husband/wife" or "he/she is my life partner" 

You don't do yourself any favours with "arguments" like this.  I'm referring to your preoccupation with textile floor coverings.  It comes across a bit puerile.

Anyway, I know plenty of people who are not married and still refer to their S.O. as husband/wife, so why can't you?  Why do you even want to be able to get "married", simply because you can't?

I think in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty good here.  Sure there's an inequality, but I think you'll find it's rather immaterial to your day-to-day living.  It's pretty hard to adopt regardless of your sexual orientation, and marriage/civil union?  Who cares?  I honestly think you'd be better off worrying about some of life's larger problems.

1094 posts

Uber Geek


  #399209 2-Nov-2010 16:23
Send private message

tardtasticx:
Yeh we know that one person can adopt a child but thats not the point, the point is that a couple cannot adopt together and have joint guardianship of the child. That means that the other parent is left with the label of caregiver. 


No worries, just wanted to get myself clear with it all :) - things were as clear as mud before!

I had a read up about transfer of marriage between states (over in the US) and unfortunately you can't get through that loop hole either.  (it may be different in NZ)
but over there, a civil union is transferable to other states that don't allow it (for example the minimum age for a civil union being 16 in on state and 17 in another, the union will still be legal in both states)

However marriage does not fit the bill, a marriage that is legal in one state and not in another cannot be passed though. Meaning you can't get married in a state that allows gay marriage and then move to another and expect it to be still legal.

 
 
 
 




2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #399211 2-Nov-2010 16:23
Send private message

bazzer: 
You don't do yourself any favours with "arguments" like this.  I'm referring to your preoccupation with textile floor coverings.  It comes across a bit puerile.

Anyway, I know plenty of people who are not married and still refer to their S.O. as husband/wife, so why can't you?  Why do you even want to get "married", simply because you can't?



Well why do straight people get married? its because they can. 
 




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


2078 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #399215 2-Nov-2010 16:26
Send private message

tardtasticx:
bazzer: 
You don't do yourself any favours with "arguments" like this.  I'm referring to your preoccupation with textile floor coverings.  It comes across a bit puerile.

Anyway, I know plenty of people who are not married and still refer to their S.O. as husband/wife, so why can't you?  Why do you even want to get "married", simply because you can't?



Well why do straight people get married? its because they can. 
 


Not true, it's to make their parents happy Tongue out

3310 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #399219 2-Nov-2010 16:30
Send private message

tardtasticx: Well why do straight people get married? its because they can.

But there's not any real difference between a "marriage" and a "civil union".  Husband/wife tags are more or less social conventions.  I don't believe there are any laws that prohibit the use of "husband" for civil union partners.

My wife and I were quite happy without being married until one day we decided we would do it.  If "marriage" hadn't been an option to us, we would have quite happily had a civil union.  Even if we had had a civil union (and we thought about it) there's not really any reason anyone at our wedding would have known the difference.  I would still probably have told people we got married and that she is my wife, because functionally there's no difference.



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #399220 2-Nov-2010 16:30
Send private message

graemeh:
tardtasticx:
bazzer: 
You don't do yourself any favours with "arguments" like this.  I'm referring to your preoccupation with textile floor coverings.  It comes across a bit puerile.

Anyway, I know plenty of people who are not married and still refer to their S.O. as husband/wife, so why can't you?  Why do you even want to get "married", simply because you can't?



Well why do straight people get married? its because they can. 
 


Not true, it's to make their parents happy Tongue out


Being married makes the couple happy. Which is more important? 




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


2078 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #399224 2-Nov-2010 16:34
Send private message

tardtasticx:
graemeh:
tardtasticx:
bazzer: 
You don't do yourself any favours with "arguments" like this.  I'm referring to your preoccupation with textile floor coverings.  It comes across a bit puerile.

Anyway, I know plenty of people who are not married and still refer to their S.O. as husband/wife, so why can't you?  Why do you even want to get "married", simply because you can't?



Well why do straight people get married? its because they can. 
 


Not true, it's to make their parents happy Tongue out


Being married makes the couple happy. Which is more important? 


No, the whole marriage ceremony is usually for the parents (in particular the mothers).

Just being together makes the couple happy.



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #399225 2-Nov-2010 16:34
Send private message

bazzer:
tardtasticx: Well why do straight people get married? its because they can.

But there's not any real difference between a "marriage" and a "civil union".  Husband/wife tags are more or less social conventions.  I don't believe there are any laws that prohibit the use of "husband" for civil union partners.

My wife and I were quite happy without being married until one day we decided we would do it.  If "marriage" hadn't been an option to us, we would have quite happily had a civil union.  Even if we had had a civil union (and we thought about it) there's not really any reason anyone at our wedding would have known the difference.  I would still probably have told people we got married and that she is my wife, because functionally there's no difference.


yeh but you would no doubt find it annoying if you finally wanted to get married but discovered you couldnt, yet the people next door could simply because they like the opposite gender?




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


2385 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #399226 2-Nov-2010 16:35
Send private message

tardtasticx:
jaymz:
tardtasticx:
BraaiGuy: 

I think NZ, AUS etc is very lenient with its laws already. Unfair is what happens in most countries where being gay is considered illegal.



We're lenient with our laws? Do you think we should be saying "oh thank you mr law maker for allowing us to be who we are without the risk of being thrown in jail or killed because we prefer carrots to rug." Which would you rather say when introducing your partner, "he/she is my husband/wife" or "he/she is my life partner" 


In a word (and my opinion), yes.

To be honest I am thankful that we live in a country that is more open than others.  We have rules and laws that protect all people living in NZ.

Back to the original post, is the bigger issue marriage or child adoption?  As I have mentioned earlier, there is nothing stopping a person adopting a child in NZ.  As long as their meet the requirements of the state (income, criminal record, fines, etc).

Marriage between two gay people will come, it will just take time for people to change their views and then the laws.



Well the biggest issue I guess is marriage because without that we cant adopt children. If they allow gay marriage then we should then be allowed to adopt? So thats the biggest issue then 


Dont agree there. To some, and myself included I would rather see gay marriages happening than gay people being given the right to adopt. Two totally different things.



1990 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #399230 2-Nov-2010 16:36
Send private message

Elpie:
bcourtney:
chiefie: Personally, I think marriage is overrated these days... It is more on ceremonial value than it seems. Civil union is more appropriate/sufficiently suitable to recognise two people's life in unity.

And yet, the topic of this thread (from the OP) states that it is NOT enough


In fairness, all he said is that there is inequality (which I don't think any reasonable person can disagree with) and used adoption as an example.

I don't believe he realised that adoption is a poor example since that ancient 50-odd year old law discriminates against everyone who doesn't have an ancient 1950's style marriage. As to marriage, well it is still discrimination. A heterosexual couple can choose to marry or have a civil union. A gay or lesbian couple don't get that choice.


Is this true? I'm of the understanding that regardless of orientation, after an arbitrary period of time (3 years?) you get no choice.

1 | ... | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New online learning platform for kids stuck at home during COVID-19 lockdown
Posted 26-Mar-2020 21:35


New 5G Nokia smartphone unveiled as portfolio expands
Posted 26-Mar-2020 17:11


D-Link ANZ launches wireless AC1200 4G LTE router
Posted 26-Mar-2020 16:32


Ring introduces two new video doorbells and new pre-roll technology
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:59


OPPO uncovers flagship Find X2 Pro smartphone
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:54


D-Link COVR-2202 mesh Wi-Fi system now protected by McAfee
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:00


Spark Sport opens its platform up to all New Zealanders at no charge
Posted 17-Mar-2020 10:04


Spark launches 5G Starter Fund
Posted 8-Mar-2020 19:19


TRENDnet launches high-performance WiFi Mesh Router System
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:48


Sony boosts full-frame lens line-up with introduction of FE 20mm F1.8 G large-aperture ultra-wide-angle prime Lens
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:44


Vector and Spark teamed up on smart metering initiative
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:42


Schneider Electric launches new PDL Pro Series designed specifically for the commercial building market
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:39


Kiwi app Pedigree DentaStix Studios uses pet images to counter impact of negative social media Content
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:32


Samsung expands to New Zealand in 5G Networks Deal with Spark
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:17


New Vodafone mobile data plans with unlimited data
Posted 26-Feb-2020 06:55



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.