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2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #398712 1-Nov-2010 18:49
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geekiegeek: Surely the best possible environment for a child is with a family that consists of 2 parents, a mother and a father. This has been proven - i.e. kids that do not have a father figure in their life \ kids that dont have a mother figure in thier life will have a harder time developing. 



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/children-thrive-equally-with-same-sex-heterosexual-parents-psychologist-testifies-at-prop-8-trial.html

I know 5 kids off the top of my head that have only been raised by either a mother or a father for what ever reason, whether it be by death or abandonment. Read the link above.

 A Cambridge University developmental psychologist testified at a federal trial in San Francisco today that broad research has documented that children of same-sex parents are just as likely as those of heterosexual parents to be well-adjusted.
"Studies have found children do not require both a male and female parent," testified Michael Lamb, who heads Cambridge's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.


It does say this also:

 Children of same-sex couples are more vulnerable than their counterparts to be teased about their parents, but not more likely to be teased overall, he said. Lamb also said that children of gays and lesbians have fewer sexual stereotypes than children of heterosexuals.


 




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

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Sam, Auckland 


860 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  #398715 1-Nov-2010 18:57
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Teeps:  The good thing is though that these children grow up with it being normal to have two parents of the same sex, their friends will grow up knowing the same, they will have done this from a very young age so what's to bully them about?



I agree with geekiegeek there in regards to why it is important to have a Mother and Father in a child’s upbringing.

And I strongly disagree with your last sentence there Teeps, in that instance the child is forced in to that situation.

I also want to apologise to Tardtasticx for not spelling his name properly, that was a cheeky comment from my behalf but at the same time I don't appreciate being stereotyped.

Cheers
Conor



 
 
 
 


501 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #398717 1-Nov-2010 18:58
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geekiegeek: Surely the best possible environment for a child is with a family that consists of 2 parents, a mother and a father. This has been proven - i.e. kids that do not have a father figure in their life \ kids that dont have a mother figure in thier life will have a harder time developing. Therefore if the state is choosing "the best possible" outcome for a child it stands to reason that it should be with a mother and father. This is why we dont have single parent adoptions.



Actually I think the best possible environment for a child is a stable loving home and being given a good upbringing, two men or two women can do that just as well. Are you suggesting that a the 'ideal' family as you suggest would be wrong if ther wasn't an exact 50/50 balance between the parents? Although there must be some families like this I am sure it's very rare.

If I had a child I would not deny it female contact and it would get a good rounded upbringing, I am very certain it would not go without just because it didn't have an upbringing from straight parents who look after them evenly. After all that wouldn't be very natural as you suggest it should be as traditionally fathers have had very little to do with the upbringing of children. Maybe your suggestion is that women shouldn't work and they should look after the family while the male (hunter/gatherer) provides for the family?



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #398719 1-Nov-2010 18:59
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cgrew:
Teeps:  The good thing is though that these children grow up with it being normal to have two parents of the same sex, their friends will grow up knowing the same, they will have done this from a very young age so what's to bully them about?



I agree with geekiegeek there in regards to why it is important to have a Mother and Father in a child’s upbringing.

And I strongly disagree with your last sentence there Teeps, in that instance the child is forced in to that situation.

I also want to apologise to tardtasticx for not spelling his name properly, that was a cheeky comment from my behalf but at the same time I don't appreciate being stereotyped.

Cheers
Conor




*Tardtasticx...

And you can say that a child who is born into a straight family is forced into that lifestyle as well. Children can't pick their parents, its a fact of life, its "unnatural".  




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

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Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


501 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #398726 1-Nov-2010 19:08
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cgrew: And I strongly disagree with your last sentence there Teeps, in that instance the child is forced in to that situation.


What's the forcing? Does that mean a child should not be brought up by anyone who could possibly be the subject of teasing? Should a bald man not be allowed to have a child because other children my tease his child because they see their father is bald? That list could go on.

We are all different and that's how the world should be, but it doesn't mean same sex parenting is wrong and harmful to the child.

2364 posts

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  #398727 1-Nov-2010 19:08
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I think there is a personal part to play in this that is not based on science. Just to use GE as an example, there is plenty of science to show that it may be completly safe and could greatly benifit the world but people on a personal level are not comfortable with it. So who's right, the science or the personal views of the people?

Just another note: thanks to all involved in this discussion for the way that you have all acted - keeping to a topic like this and not getting personal is hard I know but I think we have all done well here.




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2460 posts

Uber Geek


  #398739 1-Nov-2010 19:32
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cgrew:
 I agree with geekiegeek in saying that it's just not natural. That is my point of view so take it how you please.


[Mod (N8): Edited]


Yeah? How is it not natural? Animals engage in homosexual behaviours. Or is that not natural enough for you?
(That is, nature engaging in said behaviour)

OH. I see, what you actually mean by "natural" is something that YOU personally don't like.
Well to me it's perfectly natural, since i'm gay and it feels perfectly natural to me.

[Moderator edit (MF): edited]



 
 
 
 


2460 posts

Uber Geek


  #398740 1-Nov-2010 19:33
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cgrew: Yes but Teeps we were designed to reproduce with a female and a male weren't we?

Thats why you are here today arguing this case don't forget.

That is the natural way.


*insert other counterpoints about the dumb "natural" viewpoint here*


240 posts

Master Geek

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  #398743 1-Nov-2010 19:35
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tardtasticx:
cgrew:
Teeps:  The good thing is though that these children grow up with it being normal to have two parents of the same sex, their friends will grow up knowing the same, they will have done this from a very young age so what's to bully them about?



I agree with geekiegeek there in regards to why it is important to have a Mother and Father in a child’s upbringing.

And I strongly disagree with your last sentence there Teeps, in that instance the child is forced in to that situation.

I also want to apologise to tardtasticx for not spelling his name properly, that was a cheeky comment from my behalf but at the same time I don't appreciate being stereotyped.

Cheers
Conor




*Tardtasticx...

And you can say that a child who is born into a straight family is forced into that lifestyle as well. Children can't pick their parents, its a fact of life, its "unnatural".  


I think that is starting to miss the point of all this. No kids don't get to pick the family they are born into and some end up in undesirable situations.

Adoption is totally different in that we as society can control the suitability of the parents who get the privilege of adopting children.

I generally support your view point but don't think comments like this add weight to the argument.

501 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #398745 1-Nov-2010 19:37
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geekiegeek: I think there is a personal part to play in this that is not based on science. Just to use GE as an example, there is plenty of science to show that it may be completly safe and could greatly benifit the world but people on a personal level are not comfortable with it. So who's right, the science or the personal views of the people?

Just another note: thanks to all involved in this discussion for the way that you have all acted - keeping to a topic like this and not getting personal is hard I know but I think we have all done well here.


I guess the personal part is the part I can experience having grown up gay and knowing what that's like. Also being very involved with the upbringing of my niece and nephews and the way they and their friends have been around us, wanting to spend time with us etc with no stigma. I think that is more telling on how little it affects children and the problems are in peoples minds.

I don't suggest every gay couple would make good parents, but equally I don't think a straight couple naturally make good parents either. Adoption should be based on the couple and what they can offer a child and not firstly based upon whether the parents are married or not.

2460 posts

Uber Geek


  #398747 1-Nov-2010 19:38
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geekiegeek: Surely the best possible environment for a child is with a family that consists of 2 parents, a mother and a father. This has been proven - i.e. kids that do not have a father figure in their life \ kids that dont have a mother figure in thier life will have a harder time developing. Therefore if the state is choosing "the best possible" outcome for a child it stands to reason that it should be with a mother and father. This is why we dont have single parent adoptions.



So the state should be taking away children who would otherwise be raised by single parents? How about if one of the parents dies/is killed? So the state then take away that child and give it to a straight married couple?
What if the parents divorce? The child(ren) should be removed and placed in state care till they can find a nice straight couple to look after them?

Try thinking your argument through again.

2460 posts

Uber Geek


  #398748 1-Nov-2010 19:40
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DeroyBoy:
I think for some kids it could make their teenage years more difficult and that may not be fair to the child.

That is my only hesitation. I have no doubt that many gay people would make great parents, that is not in question for me. 


Try being a gay teenager and see how hard it is then. (been there)

The reason "it's more difficult" is because of social attitudes (such as your own and other people) towards gay people that it would even be an issue.

The state doesn't have any kind of "final say" on how society should be, but giving official sanction towards gay marriage/adoption is just that and over time it will become normal, which is the entire point.

2460 posts

Uber Geek


  #398749 1-Nov-2010 19:42
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cgrew:

I also want to apologise to Tardtasticx for not spelling his name properly, that was a cheeky comment from my behalf but at the same time I don't appreciate being stereotyped.


You don't like being stereotyped and yet at the same time you apply a stereotype to other people?



2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #398750 1-Nov-2010 19:43
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If the government changed the current laws around adoption and gay marriage, then the country will be forced over time to accept it. The people who dont like it will no doubt die off, or just learn to live with it because its law. We have to live with the current laws and have done for centuries




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 




2992 posts

Uber Geek


  #398752 1-Nov-2010 19:46
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DeroyBoy:
tardtasticx:
cgrew:
Teeps:  The good thing is though that these children grow up with it being normal to have two parents of the same sex, their friends will grow up knowing the same, they will have done this from a very young age so what's to bully them about?



I agree with geekiegeek there in regards to why it is important to have a Mother and Father in a child’s upbringing.

And I strongly disagree with your last sentence there Teeps, in that instance the child is forced in to that situation.

I also want to apologise to tardtasticx for not spelling his name properly, that was a cheeky comment from my behalf but at the same time I don't appreciate being stereotyped.

Cheers
Conor




*Tardtasticx...

And you can say that a child who is born into a straight family is forced into that lifestyle as well. Children can't pick their parents, its a fact of life, its "unnatural".  


I think that is starting to miss the point of all this. No kids don't get to pick the family they are born into and some end up in undesirable situations.

Adoption is totally different in that we as society can control the suitability of the parents who get the privilege of adopting children.

I generally support your view point but don't think comments like this add weight to the argument.


I said that because people are saying the adopted kids should be able to pick and choose who they want to adopt them. it doesnt work like that and if they changed it to that then its not really getting anywhere because the unfairness and inequality is still there




Bachelor of Computing Systems (2015)

 

--

 

Late 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display (4GB/2.4GHz i5/128GB SSD) - HP DV6 (8GB/2.8GHz i7/120GB SSD + 750GB HDD)
iPhone 6S + (64GB/Gold/Vodafone NZ) - Xperia Z C6603 (16GB/White/Spark NZ)

Sam, Auckland 


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