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  Reply # 571644 21-Jan-2012 15:10
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old3eyes:
KiwiNZ: Even if the pirated material was offered by the rights holders for $1 the downloaders would still want it for nothing. Quite disgusting really.


 

How do you know that??  Haven't you read on this board the endless threads about no legal way to get content especially TV stuff here in NZ  or do you work for a media company that like to tie everything up here so that the likes of Netflix  won't operate here??


Just because there is no legal way , (by the way there is its called going to JBHIFI and buying the DVD), does not make it ok to illegally download it.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 571645 21-Jan-2012 15:14
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jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Is format shift illegal in NZ, where you rip a CD to listen on your media payer. Or upload a ripped CD to the apple icloud server to listen to it streaming, so you don't need to store the file locally on the media player?

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 571646 21-Jan-2012 15:15
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mattwnz:
jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Is format shift illegal in NZ, where you rip a CD to listen on your media payer. Or upload a ripped CD to the apple icloud server to listen to it streaming, so you don't need to store the file locally on the media player?

To my understanding, yes.

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  Reply # 571648 21-Jan-2012 15:18
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jpollock:
freitasm: 
If they didn't know there were pirated files being hosted on their servers that would be the ideal situation for Safe Harbour. But I will bet it is pretty easy to find some communication that will show they knew too well what was being hosted.

IANAL, but to me this is the same as saying a bar owner, warned multiple times that drug dealers were selling their "merchandise" in the bar property decide to profit of it by offering "special rooms" to bar "sponsors" (subscribers). When the prosecution comes down they might not get the bar owner for drug dealing, but sure will get him for something like gang affiliation, or facilitating crime, or whatever.

 


I've read the indictment.  It's good reading.  The criminal copyright violation is pretty damning.  The money laundering part doesn't make any sense to me.

However, copyright infringement isn't punishable by incarceration here in NZ, and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the existing extradition agreement.  Prostitution is (being a John can result in extradition), copyright not so much.

The money laundering charge, as far as I can see, is "they took money, they exported the money".  Under that definition of money laundering any international firm that commits a crime is also guilty of money laundering.

Finally, under RICO, any criminal copyright infringement by a company automatically collects a RICO charge.

So, it really sounds like it is criminal copyright infringement.  Without that, the rest doesn't exist.  I would hope that it makes extradition interesting. 

It also makes it interesting for operators of web gambling who manage to sell to Americans...  Don't travel to anywhere with an extradition agreement with the US!

 If they _are_ extradited for criminal copyright infringement, why do we have our own legislative system?  We might as well say, "We're going to follow American law". 


If their company is incorporated or has offices etc in the US then US  laws apply and under the Bilateral treaties New Zealand and the US have the US can apply for Interpol assistance and extradition.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 571650 21-Jan-2012 15:20
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mattwnz:
jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Is format shift illegal in NZ, where you rip a CD to listen on your media payer. Or upload a ripped CD to the apple icloud server to listen to it streaming, so you don't need to store the file locally on the media player?


You may make a digital copy of a CD 'you own' for private use on 'your' other media if the rights holder has allowed same under their T&C.

This does not however extend to DVD's.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 571693 21-Jan-2012 17:18
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Problem I have with buying DVD's in NZ is that they are generally bastardized into PAL, and are available here ___WAY___ after anywhere else. Shippnig pieces of polycarbonate across the world when there is an internet that can move the data faster and with less polution is just so retarded it is not funny.

Also there is the previously mentioned issue of the content being hard to use when on DVD form with unskippable parts etc, and ease of damage of the data.




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  Reply # 571694 21-Jan-2012 17:19
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jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


They were arrested here because they were living here. They were arrested by the NZ Police at the request and under a warrant from the US FBI because that's the way extradition works.  PS NZ does have provisions covering criminal copyright infringement and has for a while. From memory, it was the basis for the case against the fellow who stole a copy of "Sione's Wedding" from a post production company and was selling dupes from his car at the markets. See s131 of the Copyright Act

Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and van der Kolk were arrested today in Auckland, New Zealand, by New Zealand authorities, who executed provisional arrest warrants requested by the United States. Bencko, Echternach and Nomm remain at large. Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the United States and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, D.C., the Netherlands and Canada. In addition, the U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged Mega conspiracy


according to the DoJ. The DoJ regard the alleged crimes as being under their jurisdiction because MU had leased servers in Virginia (Carpathia) and Washington (Cogent) which they used to serve downloads and make financial transactions. If the activity that caused the transactions is found to be criminal, as the DoJ charges say, then the revenue is tainted and sending it to another country (Hong Kong, I believe but I'm not sure - might have been direct to Auckland) counts as money laundering. 

This the same, in reverse, as the apprehension in the US of Nai Yin Xue for killing his wife in Auckland. 

I think I saw a police statement that they weren't considering charges in NZ over copyright, but I note that they have charged a 55 year old NZ man for illegal possession of a firearm.

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  Reply # 571696 21-Jan-2012 17:23
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I put some links in there, but they didn't work because I haven't been registered long enough.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1994/0143/45.0/whole.html#DLM346602 - Copyright Act

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-crm-074.html - DoJ press release

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xue_family_murder_and_abandonment - Nai Yin Xue


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  Reply # 571703 21-Jan-2012 17:48
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richms: Problem I have with buying DVD's in NZ is that they are generally bastardized into PAL, and are available here ___WAY___ after anywhere else. Shippnig pieces of polycarbonate across the world when there is an internet that can move the data faster and with less polution is just so retarded it is not funny.

Also there is the previously mentioned issue of the content being hard to use when on DVD form with unskippable parts etc, and ease of damage of the data.


Laws haven't kept up with the changes in technology, even from just a few years ago. Also these big media companies have people in high up places, so have a lot of influence on the laws. I don't think they are loosing that much money at all, as their profits have risen year on year, and they have the chance to adapt and create a different experiences. Similar things happened when the motor vehicle came in. In 1865, any self propelled carriage on a British highway had to have a crew of three men. One had to walk in front of the carriage with a red flag to warn horse drawn vehicles of it's approach. That was done to protect an dying industry, but thankfully that didn't last.


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  Reply # 571707 21-Jan-2012 18:18
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mattwnz:
jpollock: Yes, the reddit piece explains the indictment. What it doesn't explain is why they were arrested in New Zealand, where copyright infringement isn't a criminal offense. It is a federal offense in the US, which is why it collected the racketeering and money laundering charges as well.

So, why were they arrested here?


Is format shift illegal in NZ, where you rip a CD to listen on your media payer. Or upload a ripped CD to the apple icloud server to listen to it streaming, so you don't need to store the file locally on the media player?


AUDIO format shift is not illegal. VIDEO format shift is.
 




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  Reply # 571710 21-Jan-2012 18:22
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nzlemming: 
They were arrested here because they were living here. They were arrested by the NZ Police at the request and under a warrant from the US FBI because that's the way extradition works.  PS NZ does have provisions covering criminal copyright infringement and has for a while. From memory, it was the basis for the case against the fellow who stole a copy of "Sione's Wedding" from a post production company and was selling dupes from his car at the markets. See s131 of the Copyright Act


Ah, there it is, didn't see it when I went looking for it.  Dude's toast.

nzlemming: 

This the same, in reverse, as the apprehension in the US of Nai Yin Xue for killing his wife in Auckland. 

I think I saw a police statement that they weren't considering charges in NZ over copyright, but I note that they have charged a 55 year old NZ man for illegal possession of a firearm.


Except, that extradition agreements typically require symmetry in punishment for it to be allowed.  If it didn't attract criminal liability here, they shouldn't extradite him.  But, it seems it is, so he's on his own.

When reading the indictment, I was reminded of this:


 




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  Reply # 571712 21-Jan-2012 18:27
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freitasm: 

IANAL, but to me this is the same as saying a bar owner, warned multiple times that drug dealers were selling their "merchandise" in the bar property decide to profit of it by offering "special rooms" to bar "sponsors" (subscribers). When the prosecution comes down they might not get the bar owner for drug dealing, but sure will get him for something like gang affiliation, or facilitating crime, or whatever.

 


You mean like SkyCity?

Who are getting punished with looser gambling laws & probably over a 100%  increase in pokie machines, in exchange for a building a new casino/convention centre..


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  Reply # 571713 21-Jan-2012 18:29
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MikeyPI:
freitasm: 

IANAL, but to me this is the same as saying a bar owner, warned multiple times that drug dealers were selling their "merchandise" in the bar property decide to profit of it by offering "special rooms" to bar "sponsors" (subscribers). When the prosecution comes down they might not get the bar owner for drug dealing, but sure will get him for something like gang affiliation, or facilitating crime, or whatever.

 


You mean like SkyCity?

Who are getting punished with looser gambling laws & probably over a 100%  increase in pokie machines, in exchange for a building a new casino/convention centre..



Completely unrelated. Read my example again. I don't see SkyCity helping drug dealers.

 




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  Reply # 571727 21-Jan-2012 19:22
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jpollock: Except, that extradition agreements typically require symmetry in punishment for it to be allowed.  If it didn't attract criminal liability here, they shouldn't extradite him. 

It does attract criminal liability here, it's just that police have decided not to prosecute through our justice system. Something that hasn't been mentioned (not sure why) is that, given the charges alleged, these people also fall quite clearly within s98A of the Crimes Act 1961. 

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  Reply # 571735 21-Jan-2012 20:20
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will they return our personal files on megaupload??? goodness sake this is not fair for law-abiding users





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