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287 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 135147 15-Nov-2013 20:10
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Hi everybody,

I've lurked these forums for a while but only recently joined up. I'm just wondering if someone could answer some questions I have about my house wiring and my attenuation, which from reading around here and sbiddle's blog seems to be rather high (and yes I have read the stickied post here)



I'm with Telecom at the moment, on one of their 150GB home packages. I live in Epsom so I would have thought that cabinets would be rather frequent and I shouldn't be getting attenuation this high. Looking on http://gis.geek.nz/infrastructure.html#chorus_cabinets seems to suggest that I have a few cabinets around a couple hundred metres away, though I'm not sure how accurate that map is. The attenuation seems to suggest a distance of ~2.5km.

I know the first suggestion people have when someone complains about their speed is that it is the wiring in the house that is to blame. My house is rather new (~7 years) and I believe is wired in accordance with the guidelines in this picture I found(edit I can't embed links apparently but it was the TCF guidelines picture). Most rooms in the house have 2-4 8P8C (I think that's what they're called) jacks for either ethernet or phone connections. Each jack is numbered and connected to a central box in the garage: https://i.imgur.com/VggjEXI.jpg.

On the right is the tv cables that go through the house and on the left is the cat5 system. All the grey cables are connected to a "primary telephone module" https://i.imgur.com/ExgF5dt.jpg I believe this splits the telephone line and allows us to plug in a phone into one of the 8P8C jacks. The black box on the left is presumably a master filter (it looks like the pictures I've seen around here). The blue cable coming out of the telephone module I believe is for our monitored alarm. The place that has the two grey wires right next to each other has the adsl line on the left.

Because we have a master filter and the wiring is set up correctly (at least I think so), I'm not sure what the reason for the slow speeds/high attenuation is. One thing I had thought was that it is to do with our modem/router setup. The ADSL line mentioned in the previous paragraph is connected to one of the 8P8C jacks in this box and then the modem/router is at the other end in the office. One of the plugs from the back of modem/router is then plugged back into the wall, where it comes back down to the box and gets split by the white thing in the bottom of the box from where it is sent back out to the rest of the house.

When we moved into the house I believe there was a modem inside this box but it stopped working so we switched to our current setup. Would the distance that the ADSL line has to travel through the house before it reaches the modem/router affect the attenuation? I would have tried to plug the modem/router into the box to test this theory but I wasn't sure how - the ADSL plug from the phone module is an 8P8C plug, while the modem/router takes a normal ADSL plug which is smaller (we have a cable that is 8P8C on one end and the smaller ADSL on the other end to connect the modem/router to the jack in the wall)

My other thought was that the master filter isn't connected correctly as the wires from the top of it go into the phone module but nothing is connected to that point. I don't know much about how they work though and I didn't want to mess around with the phone line so I didn't play with that.

Sorry for the long post but I hope someone here is able to give me some guidance on this :)

As a side note, I'm also thinking of switching to either Snap or Orcon because their plans allow for more data at similar prices. I'm concerned about their service however, both in terms of customer service and actual internet connection. Is there anything to worry about? Telecom so far has been perfectly fine but the 150GB limit does stretch us.

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  # 934617 15-Nov-2013 20:10
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  # 934634 15-Nov-2013 20:51
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Welcome to Geekzone.

An excellent first post - great to see so much detail, and if only more houses were wired that way!

That master filter is quite old, a two pair device, whereas the current ones have three pairs. It is probably fine, but they have been known to fail with age.

Check where your modem is patched through to - make sure it's not plugged in to an outlet on the voice side of the filter. Can you check which outlet it is in, and trace back to where the patch cable goes to?

I presume (someone please correct me if needed!) that the incoming line is on blue/white pair punched down at the bottom orange input of the telephone module, and the filter is picking it up from the orange pair on port 5 then introducing the voice back in to the blue input. Assuming this is the case, it looks like there is only one outlet patched through picking up the xDSL signal (the left hand one (orange) connected to number 3) - hopefully this is the one patched through to your modem...?

 
 
 
 




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Ultimate Geek


  # 934708 15-Nov-2013 23:48
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Thanks!

The speed has been this way ever since we moved in to the house ~5 years ago so I don't think the master filter has failed unless it failed before we moved in. I've only just started reading about it recently though

The modem is plugged into port 3 on the phone module and is the one on the left

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Uber Geek


  # 934725 16-Nov-2013 07:28
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OK, so it looks like your internal wiring is patched correctly.

Put your address in to the Chorus SAT, and it should tell you what expected services you should get - this will give a very rough idea of the expectations of line quality. The 42dB downstream attenuation is at the high end for an urban area, but that may be quite normal for your area.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/sat

There's a couple more things you can do to isolate your internal wiring as being the problem:

1) Do you have patch cables to be able to connect your modem up at the patch panel?

2) Given there's 3 lines (the green. orange, blue pairs) punched in to the bottom of the phone module, it would be good to confirm that there isn't in actual fact a second master filter already installed at the ETP, where the lines come in from the street - do you know where this is?

Once you've done that, your internal wiring is pretty much isolated.

Given you are with Telecom, I expect that plambrechsten may be able to help confirm the state of your line, and whether it is normal for the area.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 934830 16-Nov-2013 11:57
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That website says I should be getting >10mbps

I'm not sure what patch cables I need to do that, but I don't think I have them otherwise I would have tried that already.

Here's what I guess is the ETP and it doesn't seem like there's room in it for a master filter. Is it safe to unscrew it and have a look around? https://i.imgur.com/vfaRYR4.jpg

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  # 934849 16-Nov-2013 12:10
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There is plenty of room for a splitter in ETP :),

Yeah these are safe to unscrew and have a look in, It will either just have your external cable running into your house with out without a joint in it or a Splitter/master filter stashed in it.

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  # 934850 16-Nov-2013 12:12
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Tzoi: That website says I should be getting >10mbps

I'm not sure what patch cables I need to do that, but I don't think I have them otherwise I would have tried that already.

Here's what I guess is the ETP and it doesn't seem like there's room in it for a master filter. Is it safe to unscrew it and have a look around?



Yes master filter fits in that little box.

The way the master filter is wired in could be done slightly better, but also a but hard to tell with just photos. Your line stats say just over 10Mbps sync, that is actually very good speed for your attenuation figure.
Is your modem in the patch panel cabinet? If not, move it here too.

Do get in touch if you would like my help checking this over and re doing the master filter.

Fraser




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


 
 
 
 




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Ultimate Geek


  # 934858 16-Nov-2013 12:23
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I don't think I actually have the right kind of screwdriver to open the ETP :/

Yea I understand that the 10mbps is a result of the high attenuation, but I'm not sure why the attenuation is so high considering that the map I looked at (and linked above) suggests that there are a number of cabinets ~500m away by road.

The modem isn't in the patch panel cabinet but I don't know how to connect it in there as I've mentioned before

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  # 934863 16-Nov-2013 12:54
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You can probably open the ETP with a small flat blade screwdriver - the screws are fairly short and not very tight. Pop the front off, and grab another photo. If there is a master splitter in there, it should be in a slot at the very top.

The thing that stands out to me is the 42dB attenuation in combination with the approx 10 Mb/s sync rate - the sync rate you have is not bad, but is quite a bit higher than I would have expected for 42dB attenuation, which suggests something is artificially increasing the attenuation figure (or you are on a very long, but good quality line).

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  # 934885 16-Nov-2013 13:55
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Just don't damage the ETP screws or replace them with ones that will rust. Had to replace an ETP yesterday because of this, plus the amount of time and effort prying it open and off!




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com




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Ultimate Geek


  # 934887 16-Nov-2013 14:03
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I had an attempt at unscrewing them but them seem pretty tight and I didn't want to damage the screws


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  # 934934 16-Nov-2013 15:44
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7xoxl42hpguzwf/2013-11-07%2018.33.00.jpg?m=
Master filter inside that box.

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  # 934953 16-Nov-2013 17:12
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Would the modem even work if filtered let alone 10M down? A second filter may be a red herring. How trustworthy are modem attenuation stats?

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  # 934954 16-Nov-2013 17:20
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Bung: Would the modem even work if filtered let alone 10M down? A second filter may be a red herring. How trustworthy are modem attenuation stats?


There's been cases of people connecting modems through a filter before, and they will often connect OK, but 10Mb/s is probably pushing it...

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