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  Reply # 1001492 8-Mar-2014 23:04
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overkill:
DonGould:
Cbfd: Haha i can do better take them up a 70m cell tower to replace that antenna that has been causing faults and people think is an easy fix :)


Just increasing the poo in the pants rating....

pffft.... I'll take your 70m tower any day of the week over being in a confined underfloor space in an earthquake zone.

D


Actually I was leaving that one alone.  I've just had liqquarfaction removed from under my building and we were talking about those issues.  People are very lucky not to have drowned.  If you were under my building in either of the last two major quakes then you'd be camped there permanently.  That is a truely frightening job.





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  Reply # 1001494 8-Mar-2014 23:15
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hio77:
Cbfd: @hio77 bad habits come in due to workloads and commit times and getting the job done so they can gwt paid (why visionstream are bad) and techs being sent out doing wrong work happens due to either wrong service orders (usually isp issue) or bad dispatching .


iknow why it is, but does that make it acceptable really? when you lead to many days of man hours to resolve a fault due to not doing it properly the first time?

as with both points, its based off my own experienced, in terms of wrong techs being sent out, i dont think it was the ISPs fault at all, as when the tech was sitting there trying to hear a dial tone, and testing a adsl modem on a naked vdsl line, as he was checking the work order again could see it clearly written multiple times down his screen naked vdsl.

now im sure there is a way, an isp could have messed it up there, but then the tech should not have turned around i said i need to go get proper gear - to find hours later he was never going to be returning.


i personally have been riddled with visionstreams awesome service, and have very dim views on them unfortunately.


every time it looks like ima have good experience for once, it ends up further down the rabbit hole.



so im sorry if i offend you in blaming techs for often being bad, but it is true, bad experiences outway alright ones, and im yet to have a great experience - im eagerly awaiting one of these, when i can say, well done chorus, i didnt want to throw a tech out the door for not being able even attempt a simple conversation about the technology they are installing, and why things arent going how they should be.


I have no idea of your age or background, but you're talking about the sort of issues that impact many industries and corporates in general.

But you also seem to be just ignoring my general point that we NEED to be turning this copper network off.

We need to just focus on positive migration off the copper and on to wireless and fibre, away from the legacy dated POTS/PSTN star network.

D




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  Reply # 1001495 8-Mar-2014 23:16
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CamH: To be honest, I don't think most people that have issues with Chorus have problems with the technicians / contractors sent out, but more as Chorus as a company. As someone who works with DSL / UFB on a daily basis (and I must say, does complain about Chorus' processes a fair bit) I don't think I've ever had, or heard of any problems with the technicians - But more with the organisations of getting those technicians out to clients to fix / deploy solutions on these copper networks.

As for getting everyone on to Fibre, I think RSPs really need to start pushing the positive benefits of Fibre (i.e reliability) as a 5% uptake seems incredibly low, given that there's no real additional cost for Fibre over DSL to those RSPs!





Well Im doing my bit. Even though the Chorus map says "fibre available in April" All of the ISP websites have it as "Available now". Have already ordered UFB from Snap. And Im seeing more houses now with UFB already connected. - Im a plumber / gasfitter so always visiting lots of different properties. Apart from the faster speeds another attraction of UFB is being able to get some personal benefit from all the tax that I pay. Sick of seeing the govt waste it by paying people to sit on the dole doing nothing.


Also does anyone have any figures on how long it took from when ADSL was first available in NZ. To when uptake got to the point that ADSL / VDSL was considered the standard way of connecting to the net.

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  Reply # 1001511 8-Mar-2014 23:28
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DonGould: 
I have no idea of your age or background, but you're talking about the sort of issues that impact many industries and corporates in general.

But you also seem to be just ignoring my general point that we NEED to be turning this copper network off.

We need to just focus on positive migration off the copper and on to wireless and fibre, away from the legacy dated POTS/PSTN star network.

D


iknow, they are larger issues in a whole.. i dont think they will ever be resolved, it is simply disapointing.

i hope,  with fiber, techs get the right training and such from the get go.


ild love to jump at fiber, wireless on the other hand, i do not support. im a big, need to use a cable sorta person, wireless doesnt provide the consistency and performance i look for. until we have fiber rolled out though, its not going to help much to say, copper needs to die in a hole.


i feel there should be more of a push, in UFB areas, to push off copper services onto fiber, if not simply to cover costs a little more, and have more uptake.

POTS, i have not used since moving out, and before that, then the only reason before then, that POTS is used, is to provide a consistent service, as VOIP over a often loaded rural connection obviously wouldnt be so good.




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  Reply # 1001514 8-Mar-2014 23:32
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Aredwood: Also does anyone have any figures on how long it took from when ADSL was first available in NZ. To when uptake got to the point that ADSL / VDSL was considered the standard way of connecting to the net.


Ask InternetNZ, they do have those stats. 

The movement from dial up to DSL was slower than the move from nothing to dial up.  The numbers are very misleading because DSL update was very impacted by availability as DSLAMs were rolled out and network performance caught up with tail speed. 

Fibre uptake rates are on par with other countries and I suspect on forecast targets, but that's not the point.  This thread is about CAN support issues.  If people actually want to improve CAN support then they need to get people off it.

D





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  Reply # 1001516 8-Mar-2014 23:36
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DonGould:

But you also seem to be just ignoring my general point that we NEED to be turning this copper network off.

We need to just focus on positive migration off the copper and on to wireless and fibre, away from the legacy dated POTS/PSTN star network.

D


Wireless you say. So who here is also forever winging about cellular not being great in certain locations. yes, Lets implement wireless instead of a copper network.

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  Reply # 1001519 8-Mar-2014 23:48
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DonGould:
Aredwood: Also does anyone have any figures on how long it took from when ADSL was first available in NZ. To when uptake got to the point that ADSL / VDSL was considered the standard way of connecting to the net.


Ask InternetNZ, they do have those stats. 

The movement from dial up to DSL was slower than the move from nothing to dial up.  The numbers are very misleading because DSL update was very impacted by availability as DSLAMs were rolled out and network performance caught up with tail speed. 

Fibre uptake rates are on par with other countries and I suspect on forecast targets, but that's not the point.  This thread is about CAN support issues.  If people actually want to improve CAN support then they need to get people off it.

D



The biggest issue is getting the correct information to the masses, and at present the information is not readily available for the customer to make the decision to change.   Last week I went to approx 8 homes to connect VDSL in Porirua, all of these particular customers wanted the UFB (via fiber, which had been completed months ago) and their respected ISP told them it was not available, it was not available from THEIR ISP but it was available from Snap who services the area.  There is a lot more to fiber than just connecting over to the new infrastructure, you would in most cases have to change your service provider and for some, this is not an option.  




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  Reply # 1001528 9-Mar-2014 00:16
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overkill:
DonGould:
Aredwood: Also does anyone have any figures on how long it took from when ADSL was first available in NZ. To when uptake got to the point that ADSL / VDSL was considered the standard way of connecting to the net.


Ask InternetNZ, they do have those stats. 

The movement from dial up to DSL was slower than the move from nothing to dial up.  The numbers are very misleading because DSL update was very impacted by availability as DSLAMs were rolled out and network performance caught up with tail speed. 

Fibre uptake rates are on par with other countries and I suspect on forecast targets, but that's not the point.  This thread is about CAN support issues.  If people actually want to improve CAN support then they need to get people off it.

D



The biggest issue is getting the correct information to the masses, and at present the information is not readily available for the customer to make the decision to change.   Last week I went to approx 8 homes to connect VDSL in Porirua, all of these particular customers wanted the UFB (via fiber, which had been completed months ago) and their respected ISP told them it was not available, it was not available from THEIR ISP but it was available from Snap who services the area.  There is a lot more to fiber than just connecting over to the new infrastructure, you would in most cases have to change your service provider and for some, this is not an option.  



Im currently with Woosh for ADSL. Since they don't do fibre and I don't want to wait for my contract to expire, I will have to pay a $150 early disconnection fee to them. Alot of people im sure don't want to pay such a fee. So are probably waiting for their current contracts to expire. Also Im on a grandfathered plan with them which won't allow me to have a data cap larger than 80GB. If I want to move to a current plan the 2 year contract term will start again, and the termination fee will be $200.

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  Reply # 1001573 9-Mar-2014 10:00
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Cbfd: @dongould fibre isnt going to outlast the copper - as the stuff they are puting in has a life of 25 years and alot of the copper in the grpund is 40+ years old.

Also fibre isnt as reliable as copper :)


No surprise there. A lot of "technological improvement" isn't as great as it's made out to be and the old ways are better.

There was some fool in the newspaper the other day saying that Chorus (or whoever) should be pulling out the copper lines as they install the fibre lines ... ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people are still using the coper lines and will be for many years yet, unless the Government does another rather pointless "digital switchover".

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  Reply # 1001576 9-Mar-2014 10:03
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Buzz Bumble:

Cbfd: @dongould fibre isnt going to outlast the copper - as the stuff they are puting in has a life of 25 years and alot of the copper in the grpund is 40+ years old.

Also fibre isnt as reliable as copper :)


No surprise there. A lot of "technological improvement" isn't as great as it's made out to be and the old ways are better.

There was some fool in the newspaper the other day saying that Chorus (or whoever) should be pulling out the copper lines as they install the fibre lines ... ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people are still using the coper lines and will be for many years yet, unless the Government does another rather pointless "digital switchover".


The news paper has no idea about anything, They post what would look best on a piece of paper. Some stuff they say is so off..
I think keeping the copper in the ground is a good idea. Maybe one day there is a new use for it? Maybe old Mavis and Gerald want to get a simple Telephone and none of this interwebs stuff.

gwh

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  Reply # 1001586 9-Mar-2014 10:40
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The talk of "turning off" copper interests me as a long-time ex Telecom/Downer tech. The money buried in the ground and installed in a variety of structures from roadside cabinets to telephone exchanges must be worth billions. Who in their right mind would voluntarily just walk away from the money they can continue to derive income from that investment? 
The other point to bear in mind is that Chorus aren't building the entire UFB network, they're building a high % of it for sure but in some sizeable towns and cities they'd be asked to walk away from their investment to allow customers to connect to someone elses network.

The final point I'd make is that UFB that the "U" doesn't stand for universal, UFB doesn't cover large geographical areas of the country that are less densely populated. What a joy it must be for Chorus and their contractors to have to retain technical skill in copper to cover the likes of Balclutha, Gore and Alexandra. Before anyone makes the comment can I remind everyone that RBI is not a service designated for these towns and as a method of delivery leaves a lot to be desired in the areas its meant to cover.

What I think will happen, because all this has happened before and will happen again (when the electromechanical exchanges were decommissioned in favour of NEAX in the 80s and 90s and a lot of the cable network was built in the first place) is that a new round of lay-offs can be expected because once the network is substantially built and more and more customers connect there simply wont be the work for the number of people currently in the service company ranks or probably within Chorus itself.
Most of my intake to the NZPO, which was just about the last intake in 1986, left as soon as they qualified and never really worked as techs. The remainder either took the money being offered during redundancy rounds or drifted away like I did. We were all very busy while we were there but as the work dried up in the early 90s and corporate governance changed it soon became obvious that most work divisions were massively overstaffed and management cut numbers eventually back to bleeding edge. 

I would advise any young person joining Chorus to take every opportunity that comes up to cross skill as much as possible, don't just think fibre is going to be the saviour of their career. If they do, make sure you learn as much as possible about it because you want to be as attractive as possible to keep once the project winds down or to take those skills to the next project which will probably be overseas. And that too has happened before and will happen again.


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  Reply # 1001591 9-Mar-2014 11:05
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i would start at trying to improve your speeds tim a

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  Reply # 1001595 9-Mar-2014 11:23
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Telco's still make a big percentage of their profit from the copper network especially voice. It should not be got rid of in the medium future.




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  Reply # 1001613 9-Mar-2014 11:44
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bales: i would start at trying to improve your speeds tim a


Thats a highly strung subject.

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  Reply # 1001618 9-Mar-2014 11:58
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bales: i would start at trying to improve your speeds tim a


i tried helping him, but he just cant help but turn things on and off and break his profiles again :c




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