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pdh



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Master Geek


#153603 2-Oct-2014 15:44
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Okura is a village at the northern fringe of Auckland. It is close to Long Bay (the most northerly of the East Coast Bays) – being less than 2 km from Long Bay College (as the gull flies).

 

Down by the estuary, the village has some 150 houses on town sections; with newer lifestyle blocks up the valley. Most village houses date from the 70’s or before – and the copper is from this era.

The data connections are laughable – some use Vodafone wireless, some use ADSL, and the results are uniformly terrible – patchy and extremely slow and there’s a waiting list for new connections.

Locals (especially those with business needs) have been seeking improvement for years. About 8 months ago, Vodafone made a pitch for an improved wireless experience – but many who tried it have reverted to landline (terrible as that is).

The mantra from the providers is ‘wait for the Upgrade in 2015’.

Well – according to Chorus’ website, the RBI salvation arriving July 2015-June 2016 will be in the form of 5Mbps – which means copper ADSL. For this to be any better than currently delivered, they must be going to run a new copper line down from the main East Coast Bays Road – or perhaps cross-country from the big new subdivisions at Long Bay – roughly equidistant at about 3 km.

I would expect that most of the cost of running such a new feed would be in the civil works – not the per-metre cost of the cable. If so, running fibre instead of copper to a village cabinet would ensure the village a much happier (data-wise) next 20 years. Note that a central cabinet is less than 410m to every house in Okura village.

Can anyone suggest a way for us to promote this ?
Or, pick holes in my analysis ?
Might the new government’s policy to increase spend on UFB offer us a toehold ?

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  #1145717 2-Oct-2014 15:53
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Your analysis isn't quite correct.

RBI cabinets consist of a fibre fed ISAM delivering VDSL2 and ADSL2+ services. Looking at the planned Chorus coverage maps there are two brand new RBI cabinets going into that area, with the entire Okura area falling within a VDSL2 coverage zone.



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  #1145720 2-Oct-2014 15:57
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In short, you'll get speeds competitive with (and in some cases exceeding that of) entry level 30/10 UFB :)

 
 
 
 


pdh



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  #1146011 2-Oct-2014 20:25
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Well, that certainly gives a lift to the day !!!  Thank you sbiddle & behodar.

One of those occasions when I'm very happy to be wrong ;-)

 

Plugging my address into Chorus' 'Network Capability Map', it consults its oracle and says only

 

     "RBI Broadband > 5 Mbps between Jul-2015 and Jun-2016"

 

and elsewhere on the Chorus site it interprets 5 Mbps as below the threshold for VDSL or any better services... so I was expecting pre-ADSL2 broadband - which is an improvement on Okura 2014, but could obviously be better yet. You give me hope it will be.

Now, as I am about to build a new house there, I guess I have to ask how I should provision the Chorus entry point ?

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  #1146067 2-Oct-2014 21:20
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serious question, will iptv be doable on a veal connection? as I am in the same situation of been served by a rbi cabinet.


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  #1146070 2-Oct-2014 21:22
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that should read "vdsl connection".

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  #1146144 2-Oct-2014 22:36
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sbiddle: Your analysis isn't quite correct.

RBI cabinets consist of a fibre fed ISAM delivering VDSL2 and ADSL2+ services. Looking at the planned Chorus coverage maps there are two brand new RBI cabinets going into that area, with the entire Okura area falling within a VDSL2 coverage zone.

Where is this "planned" map? I looked at www.chorus.co.nz/sat but couldn't see anything to do with VDSL planned for Okura?

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  #1146174 2-Oct-2014 23:55
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The full coverage/planned coverage map is only available to chorus customers (ISPs) - you need a username/password to view it

 
 
 
 


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  #1146228 3-Oct-2014 07:20
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johny99: serious question, will iptv be doable on a veal connection? as I am in the same situation of been served by a rbi cabinet.



Define "IPTV"?

IMHO NZ only has one true IPTV offering so far, and that's what Vodafone are offering. While that could technically be delivered over VDSL2 it's not (and can't be), because the wholesale VDSL2 offering doesn't support multicast.




pdh



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  #1146534 3-Oct-2014 12:20
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OK - so the secret-squirrel ISP map shows fibre into Okura to not one, but two cabinets. Perhaps one of them located in the village and the other down Vaughn's Road somewhere ?

I am assuming that one fibre line into Okura could comfortably carry any traffic for 150 houses - including multicast possibilities.

Then why on earth not plan to run fibre down the four streets of the village ? We're not dealing with a rural village of widespread farms - as the houses are at the same density as Glenfield or any other NZ suburb and the whole place sits in half of a 410 m radius circle.

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  #1146540 3-Oct-2014 12:32
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pdh: OK - so the secret-squirrel ISP map shows fibre into Okura to not one, but two cabinets. Perhaps one of them located in the village and the other down Vaughn's Road somewhere ?

I am assuming that one fibre line into Okura could comfortably carry any traffic for 150 houses - including multicast possibilities.

Then why on earth not plan to run fibre down the four streets of the village ? We're not dealing with a rural village of widespread farms - as the houses are at the same density as Glenfield or any other NZ suburb and the whole place sits in half of a 410 m radius circle.


Running Fibre to one/two cabinets and letting the existing copper do the work on the 'last mile' is going to be significantly cheaper than running Fibre all the way to 150 houses.  based on 'average' cost, it would likely cost somewhere in the region of an extra 500k.
How long would it take to get these 150 houses to pay back that 500k? A very very long time.

Simple as that really.

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  #1146567 3-Oct-2014 13:02
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pdh: OK - so the secret-squirrel ISP map shows fibre into Okura to not one, but two cabinets. Perhaps one of them located in the village and the other down Vaughn's Road somewhere ?

I am assuming that one fibre line into Okura could comfortably carry any traffic for 150 houses - including multicast possibilities.

Then why on earth not plan to run fibre down the four streets of the village ? We're not dealing with a rural village of widespread farms - as the houses are at the same density as Glenfield or any other NZ suburb and the whole place sits in half of a 410 m radius circle.


The average cost per premise to run fibre past it for UFB is roughly $3000 per house (that's excluding installation costs which are still in the realm of several thousand). For 150 houses that's not an insignificant amount of money.



pdh



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  #1146596 3-Oct-2014 13:32
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Appreciate the cost per house is high. True for reticulation of any service. That's why we have a government initiative to help fibre roll out ;-)

I would imagine that the cost to run the fibre down into the village is at least half a million - so why falter at the last step ?

As I pointed out, the high density of Okura means that 'last step' is no worse than any other suburb.

And, as sbiddle pointed out - the difference between VDSL and fibre is not a difference of 'quantity' - it is the difference between services from the 20th century and services from the 21st.

I hope it's not just a case of examining current internet consumption and deciding that Okura residents are internet-averse. The current service levels would make any Geekzone member take up golf instead ;)

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  #1146612 3-Oct-2014 13:53
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Just a thought - is fixed wireless an option? There are a few companies around that do that.

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  #1146624 3-Oct-2014 14:05
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pdh: Appreciate the cost per house is high. True for reticulation of any service. That's why we have a government initiative to help fibre roll out ;-)

I would imagine that the cost to run the fibre down into the village is at least half a million - so why falter at the last step ?


Because the government "pot-o-cash" is not never ending, so the line has to be drawn somewhere.

And besides if they did a special extendtion of UFB to Okura, the Beehive would be rapidily surrounded by hordes of flaming torch and pitchfork wielding Outramites :)

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  #1146630 3-Oct-2014 14:12
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I'm waiting for your pitch.

What makes Okura so important that and different from the hundreds of other towns in NZ that would like fibre? Some of these other places are still stuck with ASAMs and won't even get VDSL2.




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