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514 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#15916 14-Sep-2007 17:08
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I hope that my tale of telecommunications ping pong and incompetence is a rarity. I fear it isn't.

With our family scattered all over the place, my parents, who are now in their 70s, to my surprise and delight decided to investigate the Internet. They took classes through Senior net, bought themselves a pretty good computer, and got on-line.

They wanted to keep it simple, so they just got Xtra dial-up so they could have the costs of being on-line added to the bill they were already receiving from Telecom.

Every so often, I'd suggest to them that they should investigate broad band. I pointed out the benefits of getting good quality pictures of their grandchildren, of Skyping me when I was overseas, of the world of streaming media that awaited them. They always said they might get around to it at some point.

That "some point" finally came when Xtra, during the Bubble fiasco, changed the SMTP settings on them. It was a bit beyond them to reconfigure their e-mail client, and they were annoyed that this had been done to them.

At the same time, Orcon was offering their "Free Homeline" deal. So I in turn made my parents a deal of my own. If they jumped on the Orcon bandwagon, I'd fly up to their place to set it all up. Plus, I'd buy them a wireless router. Since I telecommute and it really doesn't matter where in the world I am as long as I have an internet connection, I promised them that my partner and I would be able to visit them more often, accompanied by my laptop, if they had broad band for me to use for work.

They hadn't herd of Orcon before, and I carefully explained that they could get great tolls as well as good Internet. I personally vouched for them, said I'd used Orcon on and off for a few years and they were excellent. While they were a bit dubious about going with a brand they hadn't heard of, I told them they'd love it, and I'd set it all up for them.

I completed the sign-up process for them, bought a wireless router, and configured it here at home. To be sure I'd done that correctly, I logged on from my working Orcon installation here at home and verified that all was working correctly by checking the IP address Orcon had assigned and browsing to a couple of pages. A few days later, we then boarded the plane, ready for what should have been a plug and play installation. Yeah right.

On Wednesday 29 August, we plugged, it didn't play. The ADSL light on the modem was regularly changing colour. The status information on the router was indicating no ADSL signal at all. I called Orcon and after a long period on hold, got asked the usual first level kind of questions that you'd expect. I did an isolation test, tried another jackpoint, confirmed there was no monitored alarm and that Sky TV wasn't connected to the line, confirmed that there were ADSL filters etc. My brother has his own line in the house, so I even checked this in case ADSL had been enabled on the wrong line. After a second call, a "failed self-install" trouble report was lodged with Telecom.

On Thursday 30 August, when there was no immediate quick fix, I called Orcon to ask if my parents could have free dial-up while the broad band issue was being resolved. This was no trouble for them at all. The friendly tech support person put this in place for a week, which he felt would be ample time.

Bright and early on Friday morning 31 August, a Telecom technician called. He conducted some tests, agreed there was indeed no broad band coming through, swapped the lines onto another pair, temporarily swapped the two lines over, and did a few things at the road side. he said he wasn't sure what the trouble was. he said that the exchange had been checked and that things were OK at the exchange, and at the line, but that somewhere between the line and the exchange there was clearly some sort of fault. He said this would have to be passed on to another level of support and it might be the middle of next week before it was resolved.

With no Internet, and my job depending on it, I finally had to leave on the Monday afternoon 3 September, having been there for five days.

Later in the week, with Telecom not having contacted anyone, I called Orcon to ask if they'd heard how things were going. it seems they had. They'd been advised that the fault lay at the Exchange, and that it was going to be worked on. The Orcon technician expressed some surprise, firstly that the Telecom technician had left without the issue being resolved, and secondly that no one from Telecom had been in touch. He said there is a policy that the Telecom technician shouldn't leave the premises until there was a resolution to this kind of issue. I have no way of knowing if that's the case, but the only call we've ever received from Telecom is the one from the technician asking if it was OK to visit. The technician also extended the free dial-up. It seems the prediction that a week would be ample was somewhat ambitious.

Meanwhile, we'd discovered another serious issue. After the Telecom technician's visit, my brother's phone line spontaneously disconnects for short periods. He has a serious heart condition, and has a Lifelink medical alarm connected to this line in case of emergencies. The Lifelink people are required to call every time they notice something odd, so they are calling on quite a regular basis now.

On Friday 7 September, a full week now after the technician visited, an e-mail came through from Orcon saying that there was great news and that the broad band was now enabled. I phoned my parents to tell them the great news, and to ask them if Telecom had called them to confirm that it was now fixed. They hadn't. I asked them to turn the modem off and back on again. They did this, and still no ADSL. So, back to Orcon I went.

It is worth noting that up until this point, I have had nothing but the helpful, courteous service that I have come to expect from Orcon. My parents were concerned by the long hold times, but I explained that the nice thing was that when you got through, you got someone who knew what they were doing and could actually give you sensible information.

So I called Orcon on Friday 7 September, and explained that my parents still had no broad band. Orcon came back with the same explanation as previously, that there was a fault at the exchange, and that Telecom would call when it was fixed. I explained to them that things seemed to have moved on since then, since I had received an e-mail from Orcon saying the issue was resolved. Was that e-mail sent erroneously, or did Telecom actually consider the matter fixed? The tech I spoke to said they'd get back to me with an answer to that.

I heard nothing from Orcon, and sat it out fuming until Monday afternoon, when I called again. Yet again, I explained that Orcon provisioning sent an e-mail saying the issue was resolved, but there was still no ADSL service. Again, I was told Orcon would call me back. I waited until Wednesday, we're now at 12 September, and called back yet again. This time, I was in complaint mode. I started the call by saying that this is now the third time I'd called with the same question, that I wanted an answer and I wanted this issue escalated.

To my absolute astonishment, the Orcon tech, who was actually very good, told me that one of the reasons why Orcon hadn't done anything about it was that they had seen activity on the connection. I explained to them that that activity was way back when I tested the log-in credentials at my place, and that what's more I had explained this point to every single person I'd spoken with about this matter, since I knew they would need an explanation as to why they were seeing that activity. There was no record of this anywhere in the written material.

So what Orcon had done, was reached an erroneous conclusion that because there was activity on the account, which, incidentally, they could surely have seen occurred on 24 and 25 August before the trouble report was even lodged, they wouldn't bother calling back to ask for further information. One has to conclude they really want my parents' business!

He assigned me a case number, told me exactly what he was writing down, and sent me an e-mail confirmation. He said it might take 48 ours before I heard anything. I found this pathetic, since Orcon were now the ones sitting on this, doing absolutely nothing to get a customer connected.
Today, Friday 14 September, I called again, quoting my case number. I was advised that the matter had been taken to telecom yesterday, that Telecom felt another technician had to go to the site, and that Orcon needed to request this. Orcon, it seems, hadn't gotten around to doing this yet. So we're now at a full week after Telecom saying the issue was fixed, and Orcon having made the contact with Telecom only yesterday!

I asked how I could lodge a complaint about Orcon's handling of this matter, and was told a team leader would call me. I told the tech that if I got a call from anyone at Orcon, I would now be very surprised, and that if I didn't hear from anyone by 5 PM today, I would take my business to another ISP.

To Orcon's credit, a team leader did call me back, heard my complaint, said a good will credit would probably be forthcoming, and advocated to Telecom for the speedy dispatch of a technician. He phoned a second time to confirm that he'd done this. And that's where the matter rests at present. No broad band, a phone line needed for serious medical emergencies cutting in an out, and the feeling that you have to fight to get anyone to give a damn.

This continues to be a really demoralising experience, where the customer is shunted from one company to another. We've almost become accustomed to things taking their sweet time at Telecom, and it seems that initially, Telecom is to blame for inadequate handling of the fault. But that's precisely why many of us support companies like Orcon. And try as I might, I can't get it out of my head that this company that was once started by a gifted young entrepreneur is now Government owned.

It sure seems like they are turning into an unresponsive, limbering State-owned bureaucracy. I would have been happy to talk to Telecom ADSL Faults myself, but apparently we mortals can't do that. That's fine, but in that case, your ISP, who presumably wants your business, needs to be a timely, responsive advocate to Telecom when things aren't working properly.

If they've been overwhelmed by demand for their recent promotion, then they need to trim the margins and give us responsive customer service and make us feel like our business is valuable, or we'll go elsewhere. I'm still tempted. I don't know who could give me equivalent service in terms of bandwidth, and the Digital Voice offering soon to be released keeps me wanting to hang in there, but I am totally appalled by how difficult it remains to get an elderly couple a broad band connection so they can see photos of their grandchildren. And now, they really wonder whether it's worth the bother. At least dial-up, slow though it is, works.




Jonathan


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2368 posts

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#86702 14-Sep-2007 17:54
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You may want to format this, post, I for one got bored of reading it about 5 or 6 lines in. Paragraphs would be nice.

nzbnw








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  #86704 14-Sep-2007 18:34
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nzbnw:

You may want to format this, post, I for one got bored of reading it about 5 or 6 lines in. Paragraphs would be nice.



Done!


 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  #86705 14-Sep-2007 18:35
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nzbnw:

You may want to format this, post, I for one got bored of reading it about 5 or 6 lines in. Paragraphs would be nice.

nzbnw



That's a totally unhelpful response towards someone who has obviously spent a lot time in wording a very informative story of an all to familiar situation, honestly, at least offer the guy some help. /end rant

OT - @ jmosen

I understand your problem all to well, it's a real shame that this happens & I can assure you, it happens far too often, I've been given the run around many times from Telecom, with a variety of different issues & although they are not totally to blame here, Orcon are as well.

I can only hope that something goes your way or more particularly your parents way & that this issue is resolved ASAP, it would be interesting to know how you get along with finally getting a working broadband connection. I wish I could offer more you some more help, I'm currently still going through a massive issue with my own broadband that affects Latency & now also Download speed, of which has been going on for 3 weeks now, with no resolution in sight yet.

All I can say, is hang in there. The irony of it all is that if your parents choose to go with Xtra you would of been connected within 24-72 hours, however because you choose a Wholesale ISP it can & does take up to 3 weeks, can anyone say anti-competitive??


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  #86706 14-Sep-2007 18:36
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Sorry to hear your issues and I won't comment on a another company's products or a product they haven't released since that would be pretty bad form, but if you are looking for a full broadband and VOIP offering we have been doing this for a while and a pretty good rep for service and quality , feel free to check us out and what we offer and you may find our offerings suit your needs, Geekzone have a dedicated forum here that we actively participate in and happy to answer any questions you have.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications



514 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #86708 14-Sep-2007 18:41
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Woops thanks, I just tried to tend to this myself. If I broke what you fixed, I sincerely apologise. It semed OK at this end but I tried pasting the content in using a different method to see if that helped the poster who had an issue with the formatting.

Thanks for fixing it and I hope I haven't just broken it again.




Jonathan




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Ultimate Geek

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#86709 14-Sep-2007 18:47
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Thanks for the reply. I've been monitoring Xnet for some time now, and have heard great things about the tech support. my only concern though is that I want to use SIP with my Nokia E61I and a PC soft phone, and I have heard you can't bring your own devices to the VOIP service. If that wasn't the case, I think I'd be switching.

I'm totally blind, and some of the SIP phones have screen-based menus which make them dificult to use without sight.




Jonathan


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#86710 14-Sep-2007 18:57
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nzbnw:

You may want to format this, post, I for one got bored of reading it about 5 or 6 lines in. Paragraphs would be nice.

nzbnw



This must win the longest post on GZ

 
 
 
 


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#86712 14-Sep-2007 19:23
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ZIMsar10: That's a totally unhelpful response towards someone who has obviously spent a lot time in wording a very informative story of an all to familiar situation, honestly, at least offer the guy some help. /end rant


I diagree, more people are likely to take the time to read this now it has been formated. If you don't have anything helpful to say don't say it at all, and I beleive I was helping the OP, both now and in any future posts.

nzbnw







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  #86718 14-Sep-2007 21:09
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I don't want to offend you by stating the obvious but the Lifelink system is plugged into the "phone" socket on an ADSL line filter yes?

Good luck!!

424 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #86724 14-Sep-2007 22:06
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jmosen:
This continues to be a really demoralising experience, where the customer is shunted from one company to another. We've almost become accustomed to things taking their sweet time at Telecom, and it seems that initially, Telecom is to blame for inadequate handling of the fault.


I am not in the least surprised by your story.  When I had ASDL installed in my line by Telecom (coincidentally for an Orcon account) the technician at the exchange must have accidentally tripped on the lead as they walked away from where they had plugged it in, since my line was dead, no internet or even phone line.  Ok, I thought, these things happen but when I phoned Telecom to complain that I had no phone line, the person on the line said that I "needed to phone the internet company so they could send someone around to fix the problem at the exchange".  This was 6 months before unbundling, btw.  I phoned back again and the next person was thankfully able to comprehend the situation.

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Master Geek


  #86734 15-Sep-2007 05:32
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Well done for such a long post!  Must have taken ages to put together (and it does look better formatted).

From the information you've provided it sounds to me like Orcon have some major customer management/ communication issues to deal with.  First of all - Orcon is your provider and responsible for the management of services to you.  If they provide you with a Telecom wholesale connection, say a free dlink modem, billing service by NZ post, etc - the are still responsible for the overall service regardless of where the parts come from. Its like going into a garage for a warrant, and needing new parts - does the garage leave it up to the parts supplier to get in contact with you?  I'm sure the Xnet guys would agree - this is about company professionalism. If Xnet can do it then so can Orcon.

Secondly - it would appear Orcons fault tracking process is poor.  Failing to follow up with you, and then failing to follow up with Telecom on schedule fault work is poor coordination. If Telecom, as the wholesale provider, fail to resolve the fault then its up to Orcon to yell, scream, and chase them - not you.  Orcon is the organisation with an agreement in place with Telecom.  They will also have a dedicated relationship manager and an escalation path - they need to get on with it.

Unfortunately I think the public is going to see a lot more of this as companies take on more customers and come to grips with being a full service provider. Operations and fault resolution is people intensive - and if you don't have enough people it customers who suffer.  Regardless of who supplies the parts - if you sell the service to a customer you're responsible for keeping it running. Sitting back in chaos and pointing the finger at Telecom is bullsh*%.

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  #86740 15-Sep-2007 08:08
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@jmosen: I hope the phone line and broadband trouble's in your parents' house will be resolved very soon. It sure makes you feel helpless and infuriated when things like this happen to you.

@ZIMsar10:

You said it can take 3 weeks to get connected when you choose a wholesale ISP. I guess I was lucky when I recently switched from Telecom to Xnet.

It's not that I had particularly bad service from Telecom or anything, but I needed separate billing, liked one of the plans that Xnet had to offer, had heard good things about them and so I went.

What really surprised me was that it was all switched over and done on the very same day that I had filled out the request form on the Xnet web-site. They called me back later that morning to go through a 'confirmation' process. Then, just a few hours later, I noticed that I suddenly didn't have my ADSL connection any more. I logged into my router and configured it with the Xnet settings, which luckily I had copied down earlier in the day.

After a few minutes ADSL was back, and I was up and running again. Just like that. A few hours between requesting the switch and it happening.

Wow, I'm impressed. And now I am even able to monitor my bandwidth usage, which I was never able to do successfully with Telecom before.


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  #86743 15-Sep-2007 09:24
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foobar:
@jmosen: I hope the phone line and broadband trouble's in your parents' house will be resolved very soon. It sure makes you feel helpless and infuriated when things like this happen to you.

@ZIMsar10:

You said it can take 3 weeks to get connected when you choose a wholesale ISP. I guess I was lucky when I recently switched from Telecom to Xnet.

It's not that I had particularly bad service from Telecom or anything, but I needed separate billing, liked one of the plans that Xnet had to offer, had heard good things about them and so I went.

What really surprised me was that it was all switched over and done on the very same day that I had filled out the request form on the Xnet web-site. They called me back later that morning to go through a 'confirmation' process. Then, just a few hours later, I noticed that I suddenly didn't have my ADSL connection any more. I logged into my router and configured it with the Xnet settings, which luckily I had copied down earlier in the day.

After a few minutes ADSL was back, and I was up and running again. Just like that. A few hours between requesting the switch and it happening.

Wow, I'm impressed. And now I am even able to monitor my bandwidth usage, which I was never able to do successfully with Telecom before.




Yes, it can take up to 3 weeks (sometimes much longer, see my experience below) for a NEW connection which is the case for jmosen's parents, but if a connection is already established, then it is usually a lot faster.


Good to see you are happy with Xnet, the one thing that puts me off going with them, is the way they disconnect their customers for alledged piracy & to mind this is a very grey area in New Zealand law & I beg to differ with how an American company can claim Joe Bloggs downloaded such & such a file & Xnet act on this, when American does not apply in this country, not to mention IP spoofing & the like, however this is OT.



I had a very bad experience last year, check it out here:



http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/0DD1973DCF7D2078CC25711F00138577?Opendocument&HighLight=2,Registered,Nurse,Grant,Smith



By Stephen Bell Wellington | Thursday, 2 March, 2006



In the wake of writer Rachel McAlpines tale (Computerworld, February 6), another disgruntled customer has surfaced complaining of confusion and delays in changing telco service.



Telecom and TelstraClear both claim innocence and blame the other party for the glitch.

Up to 2004, Grant Smith, a registered nurse at Waikato Hospital, used Orcon as his ISP and had switched from its 256kbit/s plan to the 2Mbit/s connection. Due to the extremely poor performance of Orcon plan, I was getting 256kbit/s performance, even from an FTP, and other dissatisfaction with Telecom I decided to switch to Paradise for my ADSL connection and switch my landline to TelstraClear Homeplan, he says.



Apart from being dissatisfied with the service, he was offered $10 a month saving on his internet connection if he brought the landline across to TelstraClear too.



On November 2, 2004 I applied for TelstraClear Homeplan, he says. TelstraClear informed me at the time that that this whole process would take 20 days in total. I went through the process of giving TelstraClear all my personal information and Telecom details over the phone in an interview which was recorded. I clearly explained that I was an Orcon customer on an ADSL UBS connection at the time of signing over.



On November 8, my landline services were switched over to TelstraClear, but not my ADSL. I made numerous calls to both Telecom and TelstraClear and felt completely left out on a limb with both companies. Neither company would provide me with a reason as to why the whole process was taking so long, until I spoke to a supervisor at TelstraClear.



He said Telecom had refused to give TelstraClear my ADSL business, as I was a UBS customer with another ISP.



Telecom spokeswoman Sarah Berry is puzzled as to why Smith thinks Telecom was uncooperative.



An end-customer calling Telecom retail for details on transfer to another service provider is always going to be told to go back to their service provider. For Chinese wall reasons, the retail sales folks do not have access to wholesale orders, so this should explain the fact Telecom retail could not assist the customer with their request for a TelstraClear service, she says.



The wholesale process does not allow for Telecom to hold on to the customers account. So long as a correct re-assignment request was received from TelstraClear it would have been processed. In this case the customer belonged to Orcon. There is no incentive for Telecom to refuse reassignment to another wholesale service provider.

In the end, says Smith, the TelstraClear supervisor told me I had to disconnect my Orcon ADSL and TelstraClear provided me with a free 56kbit/s connection for three weeks, whilst my ADSL connection with TelstraClear was sorted out. They were very apologetic about the whole situation.



According to TelstraClear, it tried to get Smiths account reassigned, and faced not so much a refusal from Telecom as a simple failure to act. At the time Smith decided to change supplier, Telecom did not have a process for third party reassignments, says spokeswoman Jodine Laing. He was being supplied a UBS service by Orcon and, in choosing to move to TelstraClear, was to receive a resale product. This was effectively a JetStream service via our ISP Paradise.net.



At the time, the whole question of broadband wholesale was in flux. TelstraClear could only offer JetStream resale because our Commerce Commission challenge over UBS meant we were not permitted to buy it from Telecom, Laing says.



TelstraClear tried to get the line reassigned by Telecom, however with no clear process at Telecom, it simply didnt progress. Eventually, we advised Mr Smith to disconnect his services with Orcon so we could reconnect him via Paradise. This was the only way we could progress his wish to be transferred to TelstraClear.



Fortunately, Telecom now has a transition process for third party reassignments and a Customer Transfer Code is being developed by the Telecommunications Carriers Forum which will improve the way carriers work together when customers change suppliers. Wed like to thank Mr Smith for bearing with us on this issue, she concludes.



During the whole process, it seemed to me that no one really knew exactly what was happening at either company, until I spoke to the supervisor at TelstraClear, who finally got down to the actual problem, Smith says.



Throughout the whole process, I found the Telecom helpdesk staff to be very rude over the phone and entirely unsympathetic to my situation.



Finally, 72 days later, not 20 days as originally promised I had my landline and ADSL connection with TelstraClear. I am very happy with the level of service that TelstraClear provide and very happy that I no longer have to deal with the rude and arrogant Telecom helpdesk staff, he says.



It makes me wonder how many other people were put into a similar situation?



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  #86745 15-Sep-2007 09:32
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Yes, it can take up to 3 weeks (sometimes much longer, see my experience below) for a NEW connection which is the case for jmosen's parents, but if a connection is already established, then it is usually a lot faster.

Yet in this case, the activation itself took place in quite a timely manner, from memory I think it took three or four days. The issue here is not the speed of activation, but the buck passing and general mishandling of fault resolution.




Jonathan


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  #86746 15-Sep-2007 09:58
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jmosen:
Yes, it can take up to 3 weeks (sometimes much longer, see my experience below) for a NEW connection which is the case for jmosen's parents, but if a connection is already established, then it is usually a lot faster.

Yet in this case, the activation itself took place in quite a timely manner, from memory I think it took three or four days. The issue here is not the speed of activation, but the buck passing and general mishandling of fault resolution.


Agreed, hence why I posted the issue I had last year, I spent hours trying to get it resolved, each telco would play pass the buck, leaving me stranded in the middle, extremely frustrating, much like the current issue I am going through right now.

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