UFB ISPs, VLAN Tagging and CGN

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › UFB ISPs, VLAN Tagging and CGN

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77 posts

Master Geek

#2451941 1-Apr-2020 08:43

Behodar:

Hi all,

For the benefit of people that want to choose an ISP for UFB, and already have a router that may not support VLAN tagging, I've decided to maintain a list of the various ISP requirements.

Without further ado, here's the information that I have:

ISP: VLAN Tagged - Authentication - Voice
Actrix: ? - PPPoE
Bigpipe: No [1] - PPPoE
Compass: No - PPPoE - ONT
Inspire: No - PPPoE - RGW
Megatel: ? - ? - ONT
Mynxnet: No - PPPoE
MyRepublic: No - DHCP - ONT
Nova: Yes - PPPoE - RGW
Now: Yes - PPPoE - ONT
Orcon: Yes - DHCP - RGW [2]
Skinny: No - PPPoE
Slingshot: Yes - PPPoE - RGW
Spark: Yes - PPPoE - ONT
Stuff Fibre: Yes - DHCP - ATA [3]
Taylor Broadband: No - DHCP - RGW
TrustPower: Yes - DHCP - ONT
Vodafone: Yes - DHCP - RGW
Voyager: Yes [4] - PPPoE - RGW
WorldNet: ? - ? - ONT
WXC: No - PPPoE - RGW
2degrees: Yes - PPPoE - RGW

There are other ISPs that I haven't looked at, and there are still a couple of incomplete entries. Can anyone supply any more details?

Thanks :)

[1] Untagged by default, but tagged is available by request.
[2] Voice details available here, although apparently the MAC address changes may not be required.
[3] ATA is apparently separate from RGW; see page 4 of this thread for some more detail.
[4] Tagged by default, but untagged is available by request.

[Mod edit (MF): updated NOW as per suggestion]

For others still finding this useful resource - Slingshot is now DHCP (still VLAN tagged) - see their support article

Behodar

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#2451954 1-Apr-2020 08:52

Thanks; list updated :)

nzwogboy

93 posts

Master Geek

#2478533 7-May-2020 11:53

Just a thought, is it possible to do the VLAN tagging in the ONT if you have a router that doesn't support VLAN tagging? Anyone tried? Also what is the point/benifit of VLAN tagging?

cyril7

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#2478535 7-May-2020 12:01

Hi, no however some ISPs can provide you service without the vlan. The primary purpose of the vlan is to allow transit of the priority detail which is within the vlan tag. that said I doubt many residentail connections use this.

Regardless, what is your issue with tagged traffic.

Cyril

MadEngineer

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#2478541 7-May-2020 12:44

Orcon's router set up has entries for VoiP to use the tagging.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

nzwogboy

93 posts

Master Geek

#2478655 7-May-2020 15:04

We use Pakedge and Araknis routers which don't support tagging. We use these brands for monitoring home automation systems. We are pushing the manufacture to add tagging but American company :(

Do you know if Spark and Vodafone will disable VLAN tagging if asked?

Spyware

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#2478658 7-May-2020 15:09

Use a little switch to remove the tag.

Spark Max Fibre using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+, CRS125-24G-1S, Unifi UAP, U6-Pro, UAP-AC-M-Pro, Apple TV 4K (2022), Apple TV 4K (2017), iPad Air 1st gen, iPad Air 4th gen, iPhone 13, SkyNZ3151 (the white box). If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.

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Mehrts

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#2478735 7-May-2020 15:30

Interesting to note about Slingshots config change.

I'm currently with them, but moving to Orcon in a couple of weeks, and I thought it was a bit strange how essentially the same company (Vocus) has two different methods of connecting clients between the two different ISPs, but now Slingshot is aligned with Orcons config.

I wonder if I'll hear anything regarding changing my router connection details, because I'm still connecting to Slinghot via PPPoE, or whether they'll just keep existing connections the way they are until some point in the future.

StructureDr

77 posts

Master Geek

#2478789 7-May-2020 16:31

What was interesting to me was that mine was configured for PPPoE (and working fine). I swapped it out for a UDM and tried but failed to get the NF4V working behind as an ATA only. After I gave up on this (needed to get some real work done) I restored the config from a (just made) backup, reconnected the NF4V - and got no connection. Took a punt and things worked fine after switching to DHCP.

cyril7

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#2478790 7-May-2020 16:35

StructureDr:

What was interesting to me was that mine was configured for PPPoE (and working fine). I swapped it out for a UDM and tried but failed to get the NF4V working behind as an ATA only. After I gave up on this (needed to get some real work done) I restored the config from a (just made) backup, reconnected the NF4V - and got no connection. Took a punt and things worked fine after switching to DHCP.

You mean the NF4V was behind the UDM waiting for a PPPoE negotiation, why would you expect that to work, the UDM has terminated the PPPoE from the ISP, for the NF4V to work it needs to get an interface in your LAN, hence DHCP worked.

Cyril

StructureDr

77 posts

Master Geek

#2478879 7-May-2020 19:34

cyril7:

StructureDr:

What was interesting to me was that mine was configured for PPPoE (and working fine). I swapped it out for a UDM and tried but failed to get the NF4V working behind as an ATA only. After I gave up on this (needed to get some real work done) I restored the config from a (just made) backup, reconnected the NF4V - and got no connection. Took a punt and things worked fine after switching to DHCP.

You mean the NF4V was behind the UDM waiting for a PPPoE negotiation, why would you expect that to work, the UDM has terminated the PPPoE from the ISP, for the NF4V to work it needs to get an interface in your LAN, hence DHCP worked.

Cyril

No - not at all. I meant I reconnected the NF4V to ONT, then sat the UDM behind it (LAN ⇒ WAN). NF4V runs phone and passes broadband to the UDM - UDM handles everything internal network wise. Yes, I am aware it is a double NAT situation - not ideal, but it doesn't seem to be creating any issues so meh.

It was in the above arrangement (NF4V connected to ONT) that the previously working PPPoE config no longer worked.

Ideally I'd find time to switch it around and get the NF4V working as an ATA - various threads suggest it should be achievable - but no luck so far. Perhaps something to do with getting VLAN tag passed through - I'm not sure.

Spyware

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#2478913 7-May-2020 20:46

Just create a 2nd corporate network with vlanid=10 and connect slingshot WAN port to a UDM LAN port passing all (or create a new switch port profile specifying to tag the new network and assign to specific switch port) and it should connect getting an address via DHCP.

StructureDr

77 posts

Master Geek

#2478936 7-May-2020 21:11

Spyware:

Just create a 2nd corporate network with vlanid=10 and connect slingshot WAN port to a UDM LAN port passing all (or create a new switch port profile specifying to tag the new network and assign to specific switch port) and it should connect getting an address via DHCP.

Thanks - I'll give that a try. Main problem as normal is finding hours in the day!

luleelurah

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2579971 6-Oct-2020 11:28

I've been referring back to this thread for a few years now when choosing ISPs and it's been super useful. However, I've ended up using Contact UFB recently and it seems like they may be using CGNAT, which makes things pretty difficult for my home server setup!

Would it be possible/helpful to add whether an ISP is known to use CGNAT onto the main stickied post of this topic? It's definitely something I'll try to find out in future, and it can be pretty hard to tell as they aren't often upfront about it.

Behodar

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#2579972 6-Oct-2020 11:30

That's a good question, but it'll make the list a bit messy (well, messier). I might have to have a play and see whether I can format things a bit better.

Of course, I'll also need people to supply the information in the first place. There are still a few question marks in the first post after five years!

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