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dfnt
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  #1888702 24-Oct-2017 16:00
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Bit ridiculous that Telstra gets $1000 for copper being disconnected


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stinger
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  #1888710 24-Oct-2017 16:11
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nas:

 

Bit ridiculous that Telstra gets $1000 for copper being disconnected

 

 

Not really. Telstra have used that copper or HFC cable to generate income (either from its retail operation, or wholesale from another ISP). If I was a private company, and someone took away my right to use the thing I was selling, I would expect compensation too.

 

Of course, New Zealand's model is far superior, which Chorus was structurally separated from Telecom by government legislation. 

 

 


raytaylor
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  #1888881 24-Oct-2017 18:22
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It was interesting to watch the story - they were showing what were obviously fiber to the node connections and they had 60mbit down and 10mbit upload in all the speed tests. Then they get the subscriber to say "we are only getting 60% of what we pay for"  

 

They also quoted the dollars - I remember noting that although the Mixed model is cheaper than the FTTH model, and yes it had blown out of cost, it was still only 60% of the FTTH model. 

 

So I guess the fact that they are getting 60% of the speed at 60% of the cost it makes sense to me. 





Ray Taylor

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raytaylor
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  #1889040 25-Oct-2017 00:36
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nas:

 

Bit ridiculous that Telstra gets $1000 for copper being disconnected

 

 

Not really

 

The NBN could have either dug a new copper cable into the house, in which case they would have laid fiber to the home at high cost. 

 

Instead they decided to buy the existing copper lead-in between the cabinet and the house off telstra for $1k as that works out to be cheaper. They then patch it into their NBN roadside cabinet. 

 

Telstra Networks looses the customer

 

The retailer who used to rent the dsl circuit from telstra networks will then pay NBN Co. 

 

If Telstra Retail happened to be the retailer then they too would pay NBN Co for the circuit fees after selling the circuit to them, rather than their slowly shrinking network department. 

 

 

 

Its like when telecom split - except chorus is being sold to the government (NBN Co) line-by-line and Spark continues to be a retailer on that NBN network. 





Ray Taylor

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raytaylor
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  #1889041 25-Oct-2017 00:52
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Here is an interesting tidbit of info....

 

 

 

The Australians changed their laws....

 

ANYONE operating a high speed fixed broadband network (DSL, Cable, Fiber) that serves residential subscribers had to make it wholesale-only and open access. If you are a small ISP with your own fiber network that covered a suburb or two, you suddenly couldnt retail on that network. You had to split your company and the network division had to become open access with layer 2 services.   

 

They also mandated that the maximum wholesale price for a 25/5 connection is $27 per month - pegged to the same price as the NBN. 

 

Hence why it made sense that you should sell your network to NBN Co and let them run it because your only potentially profitable part was going to be retail. 

 

There are a few companies who have applied for exemptions, but they are typically very small housing developments that were built after NBN Co was formed - but of course the minister has still mandated open access, but they have a different price cap. So NBN Co may end up overbuilding them anyway if they dont sell their small networks to NBN Co.

 

I think they are basically trying to prop up NBN Co for privatization by giving it the biggest market share possible so the govt can fetch the highest price, at which point they will have a super awesome privately owned monopoly on their hands. (See Telecom during 1990's / Early 2000s) 





Ray Taylor

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sbiddle
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  #1889067 25-Oct-2017 07:15
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raytaylor:

 

It was interesting to watch the story - they were showing what were obviously fiber to the node connections and they had 60mbit down and 10mbit upload in all the speed tests. Then they get the subscriber to say "we are only getting 60% of what we pay for"  

 

They also quoted the dollars - I remember noting that although the Mixed model is cheaper than the FTTH model, and yes it had blown out of cost, it was still only 60% of the FTTH model. 

 

So I guess the fact that they are getting 60% of the speed at 60% of the cost it makes sense to me. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure their current cost for their nmixed mode / FTTN network is significantly more per premises passed than what Chorus are spending on FTTH.

 

 


blakamin
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  #1889547 25-Oct-2017 20:51
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raytaylor:

 

Here is an interesting tidbit of info....

 

 

 

The Australians changed their laws....

 

I think they are basically trying to prop up NBN Co for privatization by giving it the biggest market share possible so the govt can fetch the highest price, at which point they will have a super awesome privately owned monopoly on their hands. (See Telecom during 1990's / Early 2000s) 

 

 

 

 

That's exactly what people are saying... There's going to be heads rolling over this. Turnbull will be out next election anyway.

 

Not sure if you guys got to see the senate questioning.




raytaylor
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  #1890979 26-Oct-2017 20:09
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The interesting thing is that under the Mixed Technology Model, it will be up to NBN Co to carry out those FTTH upgrades "As they become required" 

 

However we know that a privately owned company is not going to voluntarily carry out those upgrades unless they are forced to by some sort of Kiwi-Share / Service Obligation type arrangement. 

 

It also will leave them in a state where one private monopoly is the only legally allowed network, and any other private company that wants to fix issues in an area will not be able to build their own network (even if it performs better) due to the price cap which makes it uneconomic. 

 

Seriously.... What on earth were they thinking???
That is some really screwed up policy right there! 





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tehgerbil
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  #1891011 26-Oct-2017 20:50
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My IT savvy father just went over there, the one thing that he always mentions is the fact there's absolutely no free WIFI ANYWHERE.

 

At his hotel, he's having to pay $70AUD for 3 nights of wifi. Then they refused to sign up the tablet (3 'devices' don't includes tablets which is an entirely different pricing scheme) he nearly hit the roof.

 

Here in Chch, we have free wifi at Hospital, 90% of cafe's and pretty much everywhere else.

 

 

 

Yeah. Gave me a bit of perspective.


blakamin
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  #1891017 26-Oct-2017 20:54
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We don't need free wifi in Oz... My phone has 8gig for less than $40 a month.

 

(That and I wouldn't trust free wifi as far as I could bowl it.)

 

 

 

BTW, There is free wifi, nobody cares tho... https://hotspot.internode.on.net/coverage/

 

 


DarthKermit
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  #1891023 26-Oct-2017 21:15
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I wonder when the Aussie govt will realise what a cluster-fork this whole thing has been and fess up that they'll have to start over and do fibre to the premises?


blakamin
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  #1891029 26-Oct-2017 21:32
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They've admitted is screwed... Doesn't mean they'll do anything though.


irpegg
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  #1891031 26-Oct-2017 21:36
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Use to work for an Aus ISP and yeah the whole NBN rollout is complete shambles.  Once everything started going to FTTN, holy moly it turned to shambles.  You would have blind activation, if there was anything wrong between node to premise aka 50% of the time because Telstra fixed pits using plastic bags and a twig, you were screwed.

 

Provisioning dates range 2 - 6 weeks, all the nodes are already congested, HFC sucks, all the new apartments are locked into some weird private company no one has heard of etc.   ISP margins are very small wholesaling off NBN so eventually all ISP's lose their competitive advantage in pricing and all offer the same thing, have seen stock prices go down quite a bit in 2016 with the 2020 forecasting.  I agree with previous replies, Australia's future is in Mobile - it's actually quite solid you can use it for gaming etc, get 10GB for $40, once they catch up the UK and offer unlimited 4G common users will ditch fixed lines if they are in decent reception.


danza
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  #1891063 26-Oct-2017 23:02
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Why would anyone think the NBN is in shambles when it’s working great from the business side of things?

Telstra and other major isps doesn’t seem to have to do much to stay competitive while they can wait it out and buy the combined network outright in the future.

Also moving towards FTTP as slow as possible so they can print more money with their excisting coaxial/copper lines.



Technically New Zealand’s UFB is terrible from business point of view to the point they are somewhat hostile.

Good example is that vodafone is literally trying to spend big bucks in pushing their docsis 3.1 cable deployment and doing hilariously things like calling the docsis 3.1 coaxial network as FibreX (yeah sure i also have fibre on my mobile phone too because the tower behind is eventually connected with fibre).

And vodafone even tried to stop UFB from deploying in their docsis 3.1 areas just so they can retain monopoly on the line access with no other competition. Now they will most likely just scrape the fake fibre docsis 3.1 rollout and compete with other ISPs on the same strand of fibre. Which is bad for business.

Linuxluver
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  #1891095 27-Oct-2017 00:22
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Dairyxox: Its not too often we get one up over the Aussies, but this seems like it will reverberate into the future for a while yet.

 

If you need another example, NZ is wiping the floor with OZ where electric cars is concerned. We buy 50% more each month than they bought in all of 2016.

Our fast charging network leaves their for dead, buried and forgotten......even if we do still have a few gaps to close in remote areas.

Then there is gay marriage.......

 

I've been spending a lot of time in Oz this year....and it's like going back 20 years in NZ in many ways. 

But the NBN? It's a joke. Especially via Optus. In Sydney they are so bad they are completely useless until after most people go to bed. I've seen that personally several times in the past 2 years. Absolutely shocking.

 

 





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