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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1472350 16-Jan-2016 03:37
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jarledb: I don't get why you don't take it up with the people running the camping ground?!

http://www.okainsbaycamp.co.nz/



Because if they did offer Wi-Fi, it'd probably come at tourist rates, and we think mobile data is bad.

I doubt the solution to this problem though will ever happen nation wide in the next 10 years. It's probably not economic for the rest of the year outside vacation time. Maybe in 25 years when the population increases and expands.

I think the answer to this problem is with the camp ground though. I haven't come across many that don't have at least Wi-Fi available at over-inflated prices for very little speed for those that need an I.T. hit in the wilderness.

An RF amplifier or gain antenna for a t-stick helps. I went to Karamea once, end of the road there! Nothing works without a good directionally gained antenna on a hill top or in the open. Or in the right spot only in a few places. Interesting little place for nature lovers.

I can't see the answer coming from Government though. We all know they get told it costs 100 times as much because they'll pay it. It probably needs the kiwi DIY mentality, not a consultants 100 times the price quote. Big business and big decisions don't go hand in hand with small money and simplified or more DIY mentality technologies.

It would be good if local government/councils got in on the action. There's a lot of smaller rural places seriously considering having Wi-Fi in these areas as a must for younger tourists.

New Zealand's biggest flaw is it's geographical nature though and always will be vs population density. It's the same with broadcast. It's a pain the rear and most of the country side is not economic to offer service beyond the mainstream or satellite.

Ray's business model is obviously working for him. But to apply that to a sudden 1,000 population boost in a small area a lot of people like to get away from the grid in, not all year round... may not look so economically viable.

Technologies like Wi-Fi though, that'd be like going back to dial-up with 1,000 users even if you used all the free 2.4GHz spectrum etc... cause not everyone has 5GHz and TDMA based Wi-Fi like Mikrotik... again 1,000 users, even if split over 3 AP's that's still gonna be real slow.

Wi-Fi at the camp ground won't work for kiwi's. Only tourists that know they'll pay to much for the use of it. Then a few users download a couple of illegal movies to watch while they are there and there lies liability for the camp grounds Internet connection. Then there's interference, traffic management etc... they are only a camp ground.

So smaller cell sites around the country... yes. Like mentioned though, you have the tenure of frequency. Unless you put aside a bunch of spectrum as a free for all for the Telco's to use with their technology. However then it'll be more expensive and to convince them all cell phones should be unlocked from a providers point of view and they all have to just 'share' public space... not being able to control customers, own their own network performance... nah won't happen.

In a perfect world... Internet everywhere. I'm glad it's not. I don't need a panic attack when the power goes out. Employ some good staff to hold down the fort for a few weeks and spend more time relaxing. Or take it all on yourself but choose a better destination. Perhaps a service availability tool for telco's on their websites will come in handy for having a quick glimpse before setting off. I've had to do that before.

Sorry for the edits. Nothing better to think about or change this early in the morning after work.


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  Reply # 1472352 16-Jan-2016 05:36
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Where is Don Gould? Lots of replies here for him...

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1473104 17-Jan-2016 12:25
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quickymart: Where is Don Gould? Lots of replies here for him...


Holiday in Wellington




Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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  Reply # 1473111 17-Jan-2016 12:49
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In Wellington?? Is that classed as being off the grid? I got the impression you needed 24-hours-a-day connectivity?

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  Reply # 1473116 17-Jan-2016 12:52
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RunningMan:
johnr: Where is @PeterReader?


Making cynical comments on the TradeMe message boards ;-)


Hmmm. Nope.





I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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Reply # 1473119 17-Jan-2016 12:56
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DonGould:
quickymart: Where is Don Gould? Lots of replies here for him...


Holiday in Wellington


Did you manage to find WiFi or mobile data in Wellington? This is a first!






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  Reply # 1473132 17-Jan-2016 13:20
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DonGould: 

Dear Mr TradeMe,

There was a number of auctions I didn't take part in.  What's more, I was sitting about reading books and just drinking coffee, while I rested, at a time when I might have been spending more time browsing your platform that I might normally.

Dear Mr Facebook,

I really should be advertising on your platform for my business, but I'm not.  This would have been a golden time for me to be reading up on such things while I relax....  but I also took a truck load of snaps that just never made it to your web site.

Dear Mr BP,

Mr Facebooks lack of having my photos mean no one knew where I was and some people were worried because I'd forgotten to tell some people, but more importantly to you, there were others, who knowing where I was, may well have jumped in their cars and joined me for the night.  My lack of connectivity also means I'm less likely to travel back out there.

Not everyone needs to be married to TradeMe or Farcebook


DonGould: Dear Mr BMW,

As my current 'preferred' vehicle manufacture you should care most about the miles I put on my car, because the sooner I run that puppy into the ground the harder I work to earn money to come buy a new one off you (or another used one of someone else who's buying a new one off you... I confess I've only purchased two brand new cars this life time, not all 9 that I've owned).

You also care about my not having access to Mr Google because he's also the one who normally tells me interesting random stuff about other things I can explore while I'm out and about.

Dear Mr Google,

Well my friend I really don't know where to start with you?!  I did download my maps so that your map program would work.  That was helpful!  Thank you for that feature.  But when I'm relaxing I like to look up stuff and do some learning and instead I had to listen to all kinds of random crap that friends dribbled on about. 


Ok so you get my point.  Having people disconnect from the grid isn't good for economic activity in todays connected age.  I could have spent my week working out there in the region but my lack of connectivity meant I had to come home.  That means I don't use that time to form important potential relationships.

You'll just drive someplace else and still use the Google Maps. In fact there are better offline options anyway


DonGould: We talk about Aucklands problems and how people don't want to live outside of Auckland, well here's why.

Are you serious?


DonGould: So my question to you readers is 'how do we fix this?'

Nothing is broken


DonGould: At present I feel like we have market failure and I'm keen to discuss.

If there was a market the service would be there. How many billions to do what you suggest for what benefit? 2 weeks a year? Where else in the world is there coverage to the level you suggest.

Take a look at the other services in many of these locations, no street lights, no high pressure water (very often rain water), no sewerage (only septic tank) etc etc. The number of consumers cannot support the costs.













Sony Xperia X Running Sailfish
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Dell Inspiron 14z i5


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1473144 17-Jan-2016 13:40
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Isn't there some Google balloons somewhere?

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  Reply # 1473193 17-Jan-2016 14:55
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I honestly thought this was a troll thread, I still do.

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  Reply # 1473289 17-Jan-2016 17:15
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 I have a feeling it's not. Although Mr Gould isn't exactly being forthright about how to fix this "problem".

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  Reply # 1473300 17-Jan-2016 17:50
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It's a 'First World problem'......

Well at least for Don 'no due diligence here' Gould.


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  Reply # 1473350 17-Jan-2016 20:09
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freitasm:
DonGould:
quickymart: Where is Don Gould? Lots of replies here for him...


Holiday in Wellington


Did you manage to find WiFi or mobile data in Wellington? This is a first!


first time I saw 4G in action was in a wellington pub, pulling down 100mbps

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  Reply # 1473376 17-Jan-2016 20:35
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Don your a smart guy.

 

Just do what the rest of us do.... get out the ipstar dish and modem and give farmside a call. Only $1000+gst per month for 1mbit CIR I was last quoted.

 

Can get internet anywhere you get your camp on!




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




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  Reply # 1473383 17-Jan-2016 20:42
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  Reply # 1473397 17-Jan-2016 22:06
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Kiwirock - thanks for engaging the issue with some interesting response.

 

Ray - This is the first time I've camped in 25 years, so while a very good solution for the serious camper, not very helpful to people like me.

 

MF - It still staggers me that my phone stops working in the train tunnels in Wellington.

 

In response to other general comments...

 

The suggestion that fixing this mobile question could or should result in price increases for up to 300% is just a stupid lie.

 

The suggestion that fixing this problem in the mobile space might cost billions of dollars is something I'm not going to challenge.  I don't have the required information to do the required costings to present an honest answer.

 

In my view, government needs to partner with industry to spend the required money to get 'shared/roaming' network resource in to these last remaining locations that are off the current RBI grid.  In my view this IS an important investment in New Zealand.  I will agree with the suggestion that individual investment for $250k per carrier, into locations like this bay, isn't ideal.

 

I agree that getting data to the last 5% is complex and expensive.

 

I accept that some people want to be able to 'go off grid'.  To you folk, I suggest calling in to any phone retailer and getting some training on how to use the 'OFF' button on your device.

 

I accept that many in industry don't understand about the dynamics of running your own small business which mean that 'just hiring holiday staff' isn't a sensible thing to even suggest.

 

I don't have time in my life to just troll Geekzone on these issues.  I can assure you that if MF thought I was simply here to troll the issue then he would have just deleted the thread before it even got going and banned me.

 

I accept some people in these camping grounds and communities don't want data because that means people like me, who do like to use their communications devices, just don't show up and if we do, we don't stay.  I don't like smokers in my domain, but smoking is legal, your point is made and taken.

 

A high gain antenna would be of no use at all.  The area is at the bottom of a valley.

 

I did know that there is mobile data at the top of the valley, and I had considered making a make shift repeater with a spare mobile phone set to AP mode, a router and a couple of NSM5's from the ridge to the camping ground.  I even had some small batteries and a solar panel and had thought that it might make an interesting 'holiday hack project' to make.

 

I also discovered that there is some wifi in the park, but not covering the whole park and it's managed by a third party, which the park operator actually complained to me about when I was leaving.  I didn't know about this when I arrived because I wasn't actually planing on staying, so I hadn't actually 'checked in'.  On leaving I just decided to 'do the right thing, and pay for the night that I stayed for'.

 

I find it staggering that people here, who make their livings from the IT sector, aren't actually passionate about seeing data coverage expanded and would sooner see that these areas are left dark. 

 

I do know that RBI is still being expanded, and I guess that knowledge was part of the motivation for even bothering to post, just to put out a reminder in the community of the frustrations felt by one guy.  I guess I should have also expected to be mocked, bullied and ridiculed by some of the community here on Geekzone, for even bothering.

 

I'm not here with the answer to this problem, hence why I was putting it out there for discussion.

 

I do know that there are all sorts of answers and all sorts of technologies.

 

I also agree with the person who said that camp ground operators are as much the cause of this problem (and I also accept that some of you don't even consider this a 'problem' at all).

 

I agree that this is a complex business problem when on one side we have the independent network operator who can't see a business reason for an 'entire camp ground investment', or even simple signage in a location that some people don't even want network at all, while on the other side the very last thing a large business like Air New Zealand wants is people 'not coming to New Zealand' simply because they feel a sense of isolation.

 

Some have suggested I pick my holiday location with a little more care.  You're right.  Perhaps I should simply plan a holiday for myself and just decline the invitation of friends to join them for a day or so at their choice of holiday location.  You're right, I don't have to choose to spend time with people I know and could just adventure off on my own to places where I know there is the sort of data that I need.

 

Finally, well done to the readers who realised that this post wasn't really about my holiday adventure as much as it was really just about the general issue of data availability frustration that I am sure may people still feel around New Zealand.

 

Have a nice week everyone!

 

 




Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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