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53 posts

Master Geek


# 20213 16-Mar-2008 23:40
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'$5 billion needed to sort out Kiwi broadband - New Zealand Institute'

So why is there Fibre running up my (residential) street and yet Fibre is not offered to me?
Maybe if Telecom and whoever else actually used the Fibre they had that would help.

My area is the first to be unbundled, and then will be the first to be cabnitezed which is all rather odd sounding when all that is needed is for someone to come up with an offer to employ the Fibre already installed.

Does ANYONE have any idea how to contact Telecom regarding any such possibility?

Thanks

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637 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 117046 17-Mar-2008 01:05
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Because doing a one-off is incredibly expensive and a pain.

Not to mention that fibre is probably there for network transmission purposes, and not subscriber connectivity, and thus from your perspective.... doesn't exist at all!



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Master Geek


  # 117049 17-Mar-2008 01:20
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No, it's not there for 'network transmission purposes', it would seem odd to do an out of the way Crescent like this, unless they just had some Fibre they wanted to use up.  (maybe I am wrong but it would be very hard to imagine this street being used for any such)

And I am not really sure how much it would cost, as long as they have a plan in place (which they should already, they are doing trials after all) and as long as the customer is willing to shell out to pay for the required connection to the fibre running past his house I don't see what the big deal is, there are companies that deliver Fibre to a few buildings in the city so why not to a few hundred?
Homes or probably thousand(s)+ home NZ wide.

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 117054 17-Mar-2008 06:18
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I don't know where you live, but if it's not a transmission link and it's definitely Telecom, then it's most likely legacy First Media HFC, and is effectively worthless.

How do you know it's there?

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Uber Geek

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  # 117059 17-Mar-2008 07:31
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Where to begin,

Fibre started out as being a what the call a Back Haul Product, carrying the data between the larger exchanges, towns, now they are pushing fibres out to the Cabinets so in the end they can reduce the footprint of the exchanges as well as shortening the copper loops so it can increase the avergae speed of Broadband for NZer's (the shorter the copper loop the faster DSL works), now it's not just a simple matter of plugging a fibre in and gee whiz you have a fibre connectiom, there is a huge amount work as well as customer end and network equipment to do this on a customer level, there is a huge difference between using fibre backhaul and using fibre to deliver end services, basically it means a whole new underlying network infrastructe so it's not just about the glass outside your house. 

You may want to do some reserach on what is required fro FTTH connections from a network point of view and you may then see some of the issue's. 

BTW...Fibre is actually being deployed to a number of new subdivisons in the very near future, these will be the first Cabs off the rank if and when Telecom starts to deliver FTTH for the rest of the country that will be their call,   




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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53 posts

Master Geek


  # 117065 17-Mar-2008 08:00
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PenultimateHop: I don't know where you live, but if it's not a transmission link and it's definitely Telecom, then it's most likely legacy First Media HFC, and is effectively worthless.

How do you know it's there?


There was a Telecom/Transfield van outside my place and I got talking to the guy and I metioned that they should not be allowed to dig up the road as they (not him or Telecom, nor this road but one nearby) had recently without being required to lay fibre (as the fibre it's self is cheap) and he said 'There is fibre in here already' and pointed to a bundle of fibre.

Also more recently at the intersection of my road and 2 others there is a pruple spray painted 'T/com Fibre' on the road (in line with where I know fibre to be), although that would not have lead me to believe it went up my road as that may have seemed like a plausible (if slightly unlikely) transmission route running past.

No idea what First Media HFC is nor why it would be effectivly worthless, does the fibre have too much transmission loss?
Or is the bundle composed of far too few strands? (the latter sounds unlikely because it is possible if not expedient today to have a fibre cable the size of your little finger carry 6 billion individual video streams)

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  # 117067 17-Mar-2008 08:07
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aether22: No idea what First Media HFC is nor why it would be effectivly worthless, does the fibre have too much transmission loss?
Or is the bundle composed of far too few strands? (the latter sounds unlikely because it is possible if not expedient today to have a fibre cable the size of your little finger carry 6 billion individual video streams)


The First Media network was a HFC rollout by Telecom in the mid 90's as a trial for their planned rollout of a HFC network for TV and broadband. This was ditched as ADSL was a more cost effective method than an entirely new network.

There are two parts to the network, fibre and coax however the bulk of the network that remains is coax that is of no real use. In Wellington where was this run overhead from power poles the cable has all been removed but where it was deployed underground in Whitby and Lower Hutt it still exists.

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  # 117070 17-Mar-2008 08:41
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What you discribe is fibre for backhauling between exchanges, cabinets, etc. Fibre for local loop distribution requires that it be pillarboxed ever 2houses. I very much doubt the fibre bundles you saw had enough slack in them to be pulled up for pillarbox breakouts and regardless of that local loop pon fibre is pillarboxed when its dug in.

Cyril

 
 
 
 




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Master Geek


  # 117078 17-Mar-2008 09:13
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Strangely this is not the only or least likely address I have lived at that had fibre, from '88 I lived on a farm in a place near Whangarei (Titoki, we were 35km from Whangarei), we had a party line but after we moved in, probably '89 or '90 Telecom were digging up the (gravel) road (Papa Rd) and laying fibre. (according to our nextdoor neighbour who was an employee of Telecom lines division, older guy not likely to be mistaken or pulling anyones leg)

Again not a chance in hell it was any network transmission thing, must have been First Media but why when there were only a few (20 at most over 7.5km) houses on the road is beyond me. (I assumed my mother was mistaken about this until she pointed out who said it and that he worked for Telecom installing such lines, and he didn't tell her to pick her up or anything as he was older and happily married, also he was a Christian Evangelical/Pentecostal? so unlikely to just lie for the sake of it)



note: Ok, maybe it was backhaul, seems kinda odd really but I am a good distance from the exchange so maybe for  houses even further they have a cabinet or 2.

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# 117081 17-Mar-2008 09:21
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aether22: Again not a chance in hell it was any network transmission thing, must have been First Media but why when there were only a few (20 at most over 7.5km) houses on the road is beyond me. (I assumed my mother was mistaken about this until she pointed out who said it and that he worked for Telecom installing such lines, and he didn't tell her to pick her up or anything as he was older and happily married, also he was a Christian evangalical/penticostal? so unlikely to just lie for the sake of it)
 


Wow... This is going a long way. You are saying that some people used the "I work for Telecom" as a pickup line? And that this guy wouldn't do it because he was married, religious and all?

Back to real Telecom stuff, you better check the replies here. These people know what they are talking about and you should try understanding what they are saying.







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Master Geek


  # 117084 17-Mar-2008 09:27
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freitasm:
aether22: Again not a chance in hell it was any network transmission thing, must have been First Media but why when there were only a few (20 at most over 7.5km) houses on the road is beyond me. (I assumed my mother was mistaken about this until she pointed out who said it and that he worked for Telecom installing such lines, and he didn't tell her to pick her up or anything as he was older and happily married, also he was a Christian evangalical/penticostal? so unlikely to just lie for the sake of it)


Wow... This is going a long way. You are saying that some people used the "I work for Telecom" as a pickup line? And that this guy wouldn't do it because he was married, religious and all?

Back to real Telecom stuff, you better check the replies here. These people know what they are talking about and you should try understanding what they are saying.



Considering his wife would have been there too yeah I think it's unlikely, was just trying to dispell any possible objections since installing fibre to such a remote location is very odd, but so is Telecom. (obviously 'I work for Telecom' isn't a pickup line)

Thanks freitasm, you'll notice I have listened to everyone who repled and given their replies due respect.

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Uber Geek

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  # 118679 26-Mar-2008 01:01
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Sounds like the pickup line worked at least once...

I was living in that area when they ran fibre out to Glenfield/Sunnynook. Was a mix of fibre and coax, basically fibre to the curb i think and you will notice a green plastic box outside every few houses where it joins. Unfortunately a few people actually got Cable TV for a week before the whole thing was canned. Its not connected to anything anymore and nobody will setup a whole network to use existing fibre that doesnt actually connect to your house, although the obsolete equipment could probably be upgraded to PON if you want to invest a couple of million more $$ to upgrade everything and run fibre into homes. Sadly it was canned just after Clear Communications announced that they wouldnt install Cable TV to Auckland because market was too small to compete with Telecom who had already started laying the fibre. Didnt look good, at least thats the way I remember it. Hope somebody can correct me.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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Uber Geek

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  # 118686 26-Mar-2008 03:20
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Oh, I found that Telecom's FTTD fibre trial at Flat Bushstill has copper loop out to the house as well. The fibre node may not even be turned on unless customer wants broadband, but they have built it so that its easy enough to fall back to copper and install ADSL if the fibre trial doesnt fly. More than one householder has moved into a new house and complained that the ADSL doesnt work... guess its not for everyone!




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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# 118693 26-Mar-2008 07:15
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webwat: Sadly it was canned just after Clear Communications announced that they wouldnt install Cable TV to Auckland because market was too small to compete with Telecom who had already started laying the fibre.


IIRC it was the city council who blocked Telstra entering Auckland. The market there would be many times bigger than Wellington, Kapiti and Christchurch.




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  # 118695 26-Mar-2008 07:51
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webwat: Oh, I found that Telecom's FTTD fibre trial at Flat Bushstill has copper loop out to the house as well. The fibre node may not even be turned on unless customer wants broadband, but they have built it so that its easy enough to fall back to copper and install ADSL if the fibre trial doesnt fly. More than one householder has moved into a new house and complained that the ADSL doesnt work... guess its not for everyone!


Telecom are only rolling out FTTH not FTTD.

As for fibre running to the house I have to really wonder why so many people are trying to tell us that we all *really* need this.

Why do we need it? How is it really going to benefit us and where is the cost benefit analysis of a rollout?

Who's going to pay to upgrade the domestic wiring of 99% of households in NZ that have no structured cabling and are therefore not going to be able to take advantage of any benefits that it could offer? There is no point running fibre to a house if there is nothing but some 30 year old bell wire running between phone jackpoints and they're quite happy with the picture on their 14" TV off their rabbits ears?




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  # 118697 26-Mar-2008 07:56
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webwat: Oh, I found that Telecom's FTTD fibre trial at Flat Bushstill has copper loop out to the house as well. The fibre node may not even be turned on unless customer wants broadband, but they have built it so that its easy enough to fall back to copper and install ADSL if the fibre trial doesnt fly. More than one householder has moved into a new house and complained that the ADSL doesnt work... guess its not for everyone!


Don't they need something to allow cable tracing? Glass could be hard to find.

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