Instability of Fibre

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#3360619 4-Apr-2025 12:23

lxsw20:

Stu1:

Godness smart ass response like that good reminder to never use your service . Stats loss of phone on copper in 17 years 0, loss of ADSl/VDSl 2 , loss of fibre in one year =3

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There are far more examples , often unplanned outages are not recorded or published on the chrous website , just because technology is faster doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better. We’ve all been pushed onto a solution that isn’t truly robust. Even ISPs don’t fully stand by it, why else would they suggest getting a cell phone as a backup, admitting they can’t guarantee their own service?

Elderly people, in particular, have been forced onto VoIP and digital banking, despite the fact that not everyone owns a smartphone. For some, fibre is their only way to stay connected with friends and family. I’ve even had to drive a neighbor to the bank today because he doesn’t have a smartphone and can’t manage his banking online.

coffeebaron

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#3360620 4-Apr-2025 12:25

Starlink as backup is the most diverse. In a major Fibre outage, local mobile phone towers can go out of action too, rendering the 4G/5G failover useless. Certainly not a frequent ocurance, but does happen.

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#3360669 4-Apr-2025 12:33

Stu1:

There are far more examples , often unplanned outages are not recorded or published on the chrous website , just because technology is faster doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better. We’ve all been pushed onto a solution that isn’t truly robust. Even ISPs don’t fully stand by it, why else would they suggest getting a cell phone as a backup, admitting they can’t guarantee their own service?

Elderly people, in particular, have been forced onto VoIP and digital banking, despite the fact that not everyone owns a smartphone. For some, fibre is their only way to stay connected with friends and family. I’ve even had to drive a neighbor to the bank today because he doesn’t have a smartphone and can’t manage his banking online.

Unplanned outages was far more common on copper and likewise not very well publicized. However to be fair all forms of access have the same issue too -- generally the focus is on quick restoration of service rather than wasting time on comms.

Fibre doesn't sound like the issue here TBH. The digital divide I agree is a real issue -- however it exists whether or not fibre is in the picture or not.

Also "we've been pushed onto a solution" is deflecting the blame off yourself IMHO. It's up to you whether you buy an internet connected device or not. For example I personally would never use an alarm clock that requires an internet connection -- that's a deliberate choice I have made for most of my digital purchases. You decided otherwise, and that's on you IMHO. At the end of the day we all need to vote with our wallets -- refuse to buy shoddy products that require an internet connection for core functionality that doesn't/shouldn't need it.

I have fiber and find it reliable but I wouldn't depend on it for anything life and death. If I need reliable access then diversifying access as others have said makes sense -- however fibre would always be the #1 with any other access modes being backup only.

ascroft

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#3360670 4-Apr-2025 12:33

A few thoughts:

Increase the penalties for contractors/farmers/numpties that cut fibre circuits - the cost borne by others doesn't seem to get recovered so lack of consequence results.
4G - mmmmm if available, and in a fibre cut this gets swamped by multiple users real quick
I bought a UPS to support my connection, as most issues (when I was in Kumeu) was caused by the power being out not fibre itself - real lack of diversity there.....
Ask yourself what it's worth to you to have a back up - like the Starlink option that you only pay for if you use........

common sense is not very common

robjg63

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#3360671 4-Apr-2025 12:34

Stu1:

ADSL and VDSL were rock solid.

You were very lucky then.

My power has gone out (in central Auckland) many times over the last ten years.

We had one short fibre outage in that time.

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plas

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#3360674 4-Apr-2025 12:37

robjg63:

Stu1:

ADSL and VDSL were rock solid.

You were very lucky then.

Yeah ADSL/VDSL were far from rock solid, we use to have country wide outages lasting hours.

Stu1

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#3360678 4-Apr-2025 12:45

plas:

robjg63:

Stu1:

ADSL and VDSL were rock solid.

You were very lucky then.

Yeah ADSL/VDSL were far from rock solid, we use to have country wide outages lasting hours.

Your copper phone worked though yea?

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#3360682 4-Apr-2025 12:55

plas:

Yeah ADSL/VDSL were far from rock solid, we use to have country wide outages lasting hours.

I had ADSL for 17 years and can't recall any countrywide outages.

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CYaBro

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#3360698 4-Apr-2025 13:24

I still know a few people on a DSL connection and it is very unreliable, and their phone also goes out often, so copper is far from being as reliable as fibre.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

cddt

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#3360705 4-Apr-2025 13:34

KiwiSurfer:

Some years ago when I lived in Mt Eden me and some flatmates happened to rent an apartment right at the tail end of the copper loop where we got the most minimal acceptable service. The next block over was a cabinet zone, but our block was direct to the MOD exchange because our block happened to be just under the threshold for conversion to cabinet-fed connections. On a good day we got ~10mbits (IRRC might have been lower that). But whenever it rained it'd tank all the way down to 1mbits. Every time I logged a fault, Telecom would send someone out to test a few days later and every time they dod so the weather was fine and it'd test at 10mbits or whatever the min speed was and they'd report back "no fault". Maddening.

You must have been my neighbour in Mt Eden - same situation. Upload never surpassed 0.7 Mbps and would just go completely dead for half an hour at a time. Somehow that street ended up being the last part of suburban Auckland to get fibre too, a little pocket of pain in a sea of fibre connections!

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toejam316

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#3360707 4-Apr-2025 13:45

I was as sceptical as you could br regarding the potential impact of spade face, and the general repairability of the ducted air blown fibre used in NZ.

I was proven very wrong - I had more issues with my copper services as a field technician with the ability to deeply troubleshoot and work with the providers to resolve my faults than I have had with fibre.

Fibre issues are 99% of the time configuration issues.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

richms

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#3360713 4-Apr-2025 13:48

Stu1:

Your copper phone worked though yea?

Not had one of those since well before naked DSL was a thing. I was paying for it but nothing plugged in to use it. Caused hassle and delay when I was closing one of the DSL connections down as they kept calling me on it to see if I wanted to close the phone as well.

People would have no idea if their copper phone was down or not as they are not sitting there listening to a dialtone all the time seeing if it works.

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richms

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#3360715 4-Apr-2025 13:50

cddt:

You must have been my neighbour in Mt Eden - same situation. Upload never surpassed 0.7 Mbps and would just go completely dead for half an hour at a time. Somehow that street ended up being the last part of suburban Auckland to get fibre too, a little pocket of pain in a sea of fibre connections!

Work in Mt Eden was also delayed for ages to get fibre - I recall they did all the ducts in the street when they did the footpath and then nothing for a hell of a long time, and everything at work was running on a crap ADSL connection and it actually did cost business as there was no way to be able to consult with people online for years.

Richard rich.ms

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#3360716 4-Apr-2025 13:52

Stu1:

There are far more examples , often unplanned outages are not recorded or published on the chrous website , just because technology is faster doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better. We’ve all been pushed onto a solution that isn’t truly robust. Even ISPs don’t fully stand by it, why else would they suggest getting a cell phone as a backup, admitting they can’t guarantee their own service?

Without diminishing your experiences with fibre outages, it is categorically WAY more reliable that copper services EVER were. Speed is more consistent (and faster), uptimes are way longer and outages are simply less common. Anyone that's been on the RSP side of the fence for 20+ years will echo this view.

As for ISPs not fully standing behind it? LOL. Why are there sometimes suggestions for people to get a cellphone as a backup? Well, RSPs are concerned about emergency services calling availability, and as you're no doubt aware, the old PSTN was home mains power independant (if you didn't have a cordless phone) while Fibre obviously relies on the ONT and router being powered. In some cases the best and easiest way to ensure customers will have persistent access to phone services is to have a battery powered comms device in the home... like a cellphone.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

muppet

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#3360732 4-Apr-2025 14:49

Thank you Jesus for this thread. It was the light I needed during these trying times.

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