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305 posts

Ultimate Geek


#75882 25-Jan-2011 11:18
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Not sure if this is the right sub-forum but hopefully it's sufficient. Could put it under the WorldxChange forum but it's not directly related to them...

Main question: Can fibre optic cabling be laid through an existing underground lead-in pipe, that was put in under the impression it'd be taking copper? Or would a new trench need to be dug for the fibre?

Here's the existing cabling outside (nevermind the unfinished landscaping):


My story: (warning: this is possibly just a big whinge, but thought I'd share my woes, and maybe someone can give some insight, as I feel consumer fibre installation doesn't get talked about very much)

Built a new house in West Auckland last month, put copper phone jacks throughout, got the underground pipes outside put in on my property, anticipating a copper connection via Telecom.

Turns out I'm in a fibre-only subdivision. There's no copper here.

Apparently the cabinet on my street that is not in the Telecom Wholesale database.

This subdivision belongs to the Brightspark fibre scheme. I'm the first one living on this street. My subdivision developer and his engineer did not know that they agreed to having this be a fibre-only subdivision. Sigh. So of course my builder had no idea of this either.

The only available ISP currently that can service the fibre is WorldxChange (Xnet Fibre).

Prior to moving in, Vodafone (my previous ISP) reckoned they'd connect me no worries. Though I did ask Telecom at one point, and they said they weren't certain if they could connect me or not, but couldn't say why. Only after I moved in did they flat-out say they couldn't, but still wouldn't say why. Was only through asking Chorus that they suggested I try contacting WorldxChange. Nobody knew for sure. But yes, WorldxChange confirmed that they could service my house.

Now, the kicker is... My property developer is clueless. WorldxChange has no exact idea how far along the fibre is in here, as I'm the first customer for this street; we're both in the dark right now. I can't get any information out of Chorus over the phone. They couldn't even answer my main question above. They say they'll call back with answers but never do.

I'm finally getting a star wiring box (cable hub management thing with a patch panel) put in this week, with lots of RJ45 points throughout the house, as required by the fibre specifications, which I wish I had known months ago... My electrician was surprised that this was required, but somehow he managed to confirm this with Telecom (or Chorus?). I didn't bother initially with internal networking 'cause I figured I'd just get whatever ADSL is available and use my wireless router for most things, and have the phones plugged in to the copper BT jacks. But eh, wireless VoiP phones are expensive, so am getting lots of jacks installed for versatility.


So, next week, once the internal wiring is done, I plan on arranging a Chorus site visit (through WorldxChange) to hopefully lay the fibre to my house from the street. Or, I imagine they'll tell me why they can't lay it, eg need a trench, or maybe my street isn't ready, I've no idea. But at least they'll hopefully be able to tell me something, even if it costs me, because I can't seem to find out any other way. Though that's why I'm asking here, as a last resort.


Regarding the picture above:
You can see the white pipe beside my garage, with some sort of black cable looped through. The gray wire sticking out of the bricks is a Belden DataTwist 5e cable for copper connections, which I'm sure will be removed. I have no idea if the hole in the bricks will be big enough for a fibre cable. Tried asking Chorus for dimension specifications but they didn't know. ....

The green pipe on the left side of the photo with the same black looped cabling is supposed to stay underground. I assume it's sticking up so that Chorus knows it's there. I don't even know if it was put in that exact spot for a good reason, or if it just seemed like the best position at a guess.

This diagram is from one of the Chorus brochures:


What's missing in my scenario is the External Termination Point atop the white pipe. I assume Chorus installs this. Nobody on the phone seems to know. And as I have an existing underground lead-in pipe, I'm hoping Chorus can use it, but again, I've no idea.

This is so new, the lack of information around it is disheartening. Not very friendly at all for the average consumer. ADSL/copper phone lines are straight forward but this is annoying. This is probably largely my subdivision developer's fault for not understanding what they signed up to, but for me, a home owner, trying to find out information about this, it's heck.

If you've read all the above, thanks for reading. I don't expect many to have much insight to this but maybe! And for those wondering, I'm posting from a 2degrees 3G USB data stick.

And for the record, even though Brightspark is listed as being part of the Telecom Wholesale group, Telecom Wholesale knew nothing about the fibre when I tried asking them, and flogged me onto Chorus. It really is a developer's game, not a consumer's. (and when your subdivision developer is useless, good luck!)




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  #430936 25-Jan-2011 11:37
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Yes we know some developeres are not good at passing on the info, Chrous have been working really hard to make sure they know and pass the info on but in some cases they just don't pass the correct info along ,

PM your exact details subdivison, street address , lot number if you ahve it and I will see what we know





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Ultimate Geek


  #430943 25-Jan-2011 11:47
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Thanks, I've PM'd you.




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Master Geek


  #430944 25-Jan-2011 11:48
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I have no idea about building houses but I hoped that nowadays data cable is laid during the wiring phase for new houses to future-proof it. I'm a bit bummed to find out this isn't the case! This story is interesting so thanks for taking the time to sharing it here - good luck with the rest of the installation.

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  #430966 25-Jan-2011 12:21
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You certainly aren't the first person in this situation - I've heard of others in greenfields subdivisions who have built houses without proper cabling because of exceptionally poor communication from developers who obviously have a total lack of understanding.

If you look at www.tcf.org.nz/premwiring you'll see the minimum recommended specs for any new house, whether it be fibre or copper fed. IMHO this should be mandated in the building regulations as a minimum spec for all new houses, much like the requirements for insulation in a new home.

I'm sure Maverick will be able to help you anyway since he's had such a large involvement with these subdivisions.

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  #430977 25-Jan-2011 12:37
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We are taking a look now at the status of this subdivision for connection to your local fiber node (POLT) and to see the status of the backhaul to our network, we have your details through the sales line when you phoned in and our provisioning team are following up with Telecom Wholesale now.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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Ultimate Geek


  #430992 25-Jan-2011 12:55
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Great, thank you, maverick. Web-based communication really does trump phone communication sometimes.

My electrician suggested doing the full wiring as an option, but I figured I'd just get it done if it was ever truly needed (wifi works well enough). But I imagined this would've been a few years down the track, not a few weeks!

So I've ended up wasting about $400-500 on copper BT phone jacks and stuff due to lack of communication/information. Might chase up my real estate agent / subdivision dev/engineer about this.

Thanks for the link, sbiddle. I don't know about it being a requirement, but highly recommended certainly. Not exactly a health issue if your house doesn't have RJ45 jacks (apart from headaches later on), but maybe it will be one day.




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  #430997 25-Jan-2011 13:06
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ChrisNZL:Thanks for the link, sbiddle. I don't know about it being a requirement, but highly recommended certainly. Not exactly a health issue if your house doesn't have RJ45 jacks (apart from headaches later on), but maybe it will be one day.


It's not a "health" issue but the reality is with the CFH plans to deploy fibre to most homes there are going to be a lot of people who are going to need rewiring done for both power and data to support ONT's as well as connectivity. You're only talking around $500 (averge house) - $700 for components to fit out a house to the specs which isn't significant in the scale of a new house build.

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  #430999 25-Jan-2011 13:10
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And I'm sitting here reading this while 2 Chorus vans are doing things in the phone pole outside my house. They have cut our connection twice without telling us at all that they would be doing it!

Sorry for my rant but this topic has annoyed me over Chorus' Customer Service.




Morgan French-Stagg

 

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Master Geek


  #431176 25-Jan-2011 20:49
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naggyman: And I'm sitting here reading this while 2 Chorus vans are doing things in the phone pole outside my house. They have cut our connection twice without telling us at all that they would be doing it!

Sorry for my rant but this topic has annoyed me over Chorus' Customer Service.


Well to ring up every person and tell them we are going to cut you off would be so much time wasting... think about it.. 1000 pair cable ( 1000 customers ) and we had to ring everyone ????. Plus people wouldn't want to be cut off at that time, so we couldn't please everyone!







 

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  #431208 25-Jan-2011 21:57
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Its a good thing that at least you got star wiring done, if you have got it daisy chained like some sh!thouse electricians do you would have to literally pull off the gib from the walls to do proper star wiring so that means you'd be needing to pay for gib stoppers, plasterers and painters to come back lol.

But TBH in this day and age I would only ever put proper structured cabling in for a new home. The cost difference is negligible to do it all up front.

I also wonder when any other ISPs will begin offering services over Telecom Wholesale's FTTH program?




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Ultimate Geek


  #431261 26-Jan-2011 07:52
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rygrass: 
Well to ring up every person and tell them we are going to cut you off would be so much time wasting... think about it.. 1000 pair cable ( 1000 customers ) and we had to ring everyone ????. Plus people wouldn't want to be cut off at that time, so we couldn't please everyone!


The telephone pole that they were working on only served 4 households.




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  #431265 26-Jan-2011 08:07
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Please don't hijack this thread




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Ultimate Geek


  #431266 26-Jan-2011 08:10
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maverick: Please don't hijack this thread

Sorry, didn't mean to. 




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  #431269 26-Jan-2011 08:20
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Hi, assuming the conduit in the ground has been correctly layed and uses the official green Telecom conduit (green under, white on top) and the correct green swept bends then you are all good to have the fibre pulled through using the current Ext2 cable as a draw wire.

The fibre leadin is infact smaller than the Ext2 thats there currently and the whole setup intended (for brownfields) that the fibre is pulled in using the existing Ext2 as a draw wire.

As for the hole in the brick work, that may need to be drilled out and a 20mm conduit sleeve added, but at this point leave that to Chorus or at their instruction have your sparkie drill it out. Dont be surprised if infact they dont put a white ETP in, from my observation of the FTTH installs around here they simply put some 20mm flexi conduit down the current leadin pipe and into the wall through the brick.

I think trying to get low level installation answers out of people on the phone will simply wear you out, when the Chorus FTTH tech arrives I think you will find what appears uncharted territory will be come magically done.

I am still stunned that you did not concider a structured cabling solution regardless of your street being fibred or just copper, why should it be different?


Cyril



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Ultimate Geek


  #431281 26-Jan-2011 08:55
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Ta for the info, Cyril. I'm sure it'll all work out in the end, maybe I'm just too curious. Will get the full story in person I'm sure :)

Not opting for the cabling in the first place was a cost-saving move, frankly, as small as it seems. Thought the money would best be used elsewhere. Most devices I have use wifi, or with wifi USB sticks costing like $25, it's heaps cheaper than Ethernetting the whole house.

But it's no biggie getting the electrician back in to do it, I don't mind. Pretty much costs the same whether I'd done it during the build, or doing it after now. It just feels annoying since this is a requirement that I should've been told about months ago. And the holiday period was agonising, waiting for tradespeople to get back from holiday Cry




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