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John2010
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  #518397 8-Sep-2011 09:08
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Dratsab: You have to remember too, that $15k is the upper limit of what can be imposed as a fine. A fine approaching this amount would only ever be imposed for a really serious offender. If it ever got to the stage where someone got dragged through the Tribunal, I doubt a fine of anywhere near this amount would be ordered.


I tend to agree and I think cases in other areas of the law indicate that will be so.

It is not as if one has stolen the rights in total but just the $ return to the rights holder off one copy. Inflicting a fine of $15,000 would be rather like imposing a penalty appropriate to burning a shop down on someone who shop lifted a $2 bar of chocolate. Maybe a bit of community service.

At $25 a pop I think it would be cheaper for rights holders to just mail an original copy of the media "stolen" to the culprits  then everyone will be happy - rights holder has no complaint as saved a bit of money and the culprit is now legal, ISP gets to keep the customer and the culprit has the media he always wanted Laughing

 
 
 

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tonyhughes
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  #518440 8-Sep-2011 10:22
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Some random facts that may be of interest:
  • I handle copyright infringement complaints for the telco I work for.
  • We have had none so far since the legislation came into effect.
  • We log IPs vs customer for the required period of time (in fact longer, we already did anyway).
  • $25 probably covers the actual cost. Just. Barely. (But no margin, and that time can't be spent doing activities that do create revenue with margin).
  • We will force the notifying party to meet all their obligations under the law before we will act.
  • We will not disclose customers details unless required to by law. (Not allowed to anyway!).
  • There seems to be a lot of chatter amongst telco staff behind closed doors, much of which mimics what you see in public on sites like Geekzone (but with less whack-jobs having input) #iloveyouall #exceptsomeofyou.







graemeh
2078 posts

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  #518537 8-Sep-2011 13:32
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tonyhughes: Some random facts that may be of interest:
  • I handle copyright infringement complaints for the telco I work for.
  • We have had none so far since the legislation came into effect.
  • We log IPs vs customer for the required period of time (in fact longer, we already did anyway).
  • $25 probably covers the actual cost. Just. Barely. (But no margin, and that time can't be spent doing activities that do create revenue with margin).
  • We will force the notifying party to meet all their obligations under the law before we will act.
  • We will not disclose customers details unless required to by law. (Not allowed to anyway!).
  • There seems to be a lot of chatter amongst telco staff behind closed doors, much of which mimics what you see in public on sites like Geekzone (but with less whack-jobs having input) #iloveyouall #exceptsomeofyou.


+1 except that $25 does not cover our actual cost.



Linuxluver
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  #518548 8-Sep-2011 13:47
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John2010:
It is not as if one has stolen the rights in total but just the $ return to the rights holder off one copy.  


If the method used was bittorrent, your upstream sharing may have contributed to many more than one copy being obtained.....though you won't personally (usually!) be responsible for any single entire copy.  




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timbosan
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  #518551 8-Sep-2011 13:52
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John2010: At $25 a pop I think it would be cheaper for rights holders to just mail an original copy of the media "stolen" to the culprits  then everyone will be happy - rights holder has no complaint as saved a bit of money and the culprit is now legal, ISP gets to keep the customer and the culprit has the media he always wanted Laughing


I like that option, perhaps we should suggest it to the rights holders ;-)  Nah, then everyone would have legal copies and they would have no-one to hassle!  Imagine the shock horror they would face if we where all legitimate paying customers!  Imagine the downfall the legal industry would face when all those lawyers go out of business!

John2010
532 posts

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  #518671 8-Sep-2011 16:35
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Linuxluver:
John2010:
It is not as if one has stolen the rights in total but just the $ return to the rights holder off one copy.  


If the method used was bittorrent, your upstream sharing may have contributed to many more than one copy being obtained.....though you won't personally (usually!) be responsible for any single entire copy.  


But wouldn't the rights holder be busy saving themselves money by sending them free copies too, well the NZ ones anyway Smile.

More seriously, yes I was aware of the point but no need for me to explain here how that may be no more or a  lot more than one copy depending on number of seeds and peers around and time spent. And that perhaps points to who rights holders' $25 dollars a pop may be best targeted.

AviZ
214 posts

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  #519297 10-Sep-2011 15:52
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really?

how on earth is the author going to track such a stupid idea?

e.g im downloading windows 7 from a bittorrent site

how the hell is windows gonna know that i personally have downloaded this to even submit a dmca for it.

besides why go after the end user, go after the people seeding this stuff.



networkn
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  #519298 10-Sep-2011 16:06
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AviZ: really?

how on earth is the author going to track such a stupid idea?

e.g im downloading windows 7 from a bittorrent site

how the hell is windows gonna know that i personally have downloaded this to even submit a dmca for it.

besides why go after the end user, go after the people seeding this stuff.


Umm would seeders seed without any end users to download it? I think not.

AviZ
214 posts

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  #519313 10-Sep-2011 17:04
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no this is why the seeders should be targeted aswell as the end user. but honestly how the hell is anyone going to know unless our new zealand isp's snitch on its clients........

vexxxboy
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  #519314 10-Sep-2011 17:08
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after seeing my new IP6V ip address, xxxx:e000:e231:1:90e3:a74:9479:484 ., it might even be a bit harder.




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Athlonite
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  #519445 11-Sep-2011 04:03
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why would having an IPv6 address make it any harder to track you maybe if you lived in a country that had 20 million IPv6 address's it would be but here your like a helicopter pilot flying an helicopter amongst car drivers ie pretty easy to pick out

freitasm
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  #519462 11-Sep-2011 08:46
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AviZ: how the hell is windows gonna know that i personally have downloaded this to even submit a dmca for it.


They don't have to know it was you personally. They notify the ISP, the ISP notifies you. The ISP doesn't have to give the rights holder any personal information until the time to go to the courts.

Also, it's not DMCA. DMCA is a piece of American legislation, it's not enforceable in New Zealand. 
 




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AviZ
214 posts

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  #519467 11-Sep-2011 08:54
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all seems abit stupid if isp's lick slingshot are offering huge plans cheap, i mean what would you do with huge plans besides downloading torrents and such?

freitasm
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  #519468 11-Sep-2011 09:01
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AviZ: all seems abit stupid if isp's lick slingshot are offering huge plans cheap, i mean what would you do with huge plans besides downloading torrents and such?


Anything you want BUT download torrents.

The ISPs don't care what you do with the "huge plans", but you should not be doing anything illegal. Don't complain later. 

 




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AviZ
214 posts

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  #519469 11-Sep-2011 09:06
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btguard = great tool :)

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