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# 195009 2-Apr-2016 18:31
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We purchased a couple of Surface Pro 3's a couple of years ago to trial for our business - had a pretty reasonable run with them, so when the Pro 4 came out at the end of last year, I purchased another three. Thinner, faster, next generation - they could only be an improvement on the SP3, couldn't they?

 

No.

 

Here's a list of regular SP4 behaviour:

 

Not waking from sleep. Doesn't matter how many times you push the power button - no joy. And no LED indicator on the hardware to tell you whether the machine thinks its on or off. Need to resort to hard reset to get any joy.

 

Crashing during general use, requiring restart.

 

But most frustrating - the dock! Trying to get the dock to reliably display two external screens requires the patience of a saint. Frustrating thing is, the dock will work fine for weeks on end, and then just stop working, requiring what seems to be endless hard resets to get the PC and dock working in unison again. And you can fix today, tomorrow on boot up, no luck!

 

If I had a dollar for everytime my SP4 has said 'your pc has encountered a problem and needs to restart to complete' I could retire.

 

And it's not as if these are cheap kit - we forked our around $2.5k for each machine.

 

When they are working well, they are a wonderful piece of kit. But it's just too rare. We won't be buying any more, not until MS sort out the reliability issues.


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  # 1524746 2-Apr-2016 18:45
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I just bought the HP X2 1012 and it's a superior machine in every sense of the word. Keyboard included in price, as is the pen, the keyboard is light years ahead, and with a 3 year warranty (onsite), the price difference was insignificant. It's the first 2-1 I've thought could reasonably be used for business. Also docking options are superior. 

 

Almost every Surface a customer has bought has been back for repairs, some multiple times. Not to mention they are readily available through the reseller channel.

 

I have nothing against MS Per Se, but it really feels like their IDEAS guys aren't on the same wave length as their implementation and testing people. Form over function and all that. It seems that way across most of their products hardware and software. We have had to stop selling their keyboards and mice because the letters on the keys rub off after about 2 weeks of use. 


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  # 1524757 2-Apr-2016 18:57
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networkn:

 

Not to mention they are readily available through the reseller channel.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with you (on everything) but especially on this.  Microsoft make it so difficult for partners to buy the Surface to resell to customers, I don't think they want us selling it.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1524776 2-Apr-2016 19:38
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  # 1524778 2-Apr-2016 19:40
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MackinNZ:

 

networkn:

 

Not to mention they are readily available through the reseller channel.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with you (on everything) but especially on this.  Microsoft make it so difficult for partners to buy the Surface to resell to customers, I don't think they want us selling it.

 

 

It's pretty embarrassing when a customer says "Hey I want a Surface, can you sell me one?" , and the response needs to be, no but Harvey Normans can, and I'll set it up for you.




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  # 1528380 8-Apr-2016 12:39
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Ok, SP4 just randomly dropped my second screen while working on a project.

 

Restart required.

 

Pre boot up "Your PC has encountered problems ...." screen needs to complete

 

Boot up complete, second screen operational again, but SP4 can't connect to wifi

 

Restart required.

 

Pre boot up "Your PC has encountered problems ...." screen needs to complete

 

Seems ok now ... for the meantime.

 

A typical day in the life of a SP4 business user.


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  # 1528388 8-Apr-2016 12:45
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dafman:

 

Ok, SP4 just randomly dropped my second screen while working on a project.

 

Restart required.

 

Pre boot up "Your PC has encountered problems ...." screen needs to complete

 

Boot up complete, second screen operational again, but SP4 can't connect to wifi

 

Restart required.

 

Pre boot up "Your PC has encountered problems ...." screen needs to complete

 

Seems ok now ... for the meantime.

 

A typical day in the life of a SP4 business user.

 

 

 

 

Wow that's unbelievable timing. I've JUST got off the phone with a customer who has a SP3 having the same problem!

 

 


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  # 1528403 8-Apr-2016 13:03
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Encountered one last week at a site. Interesting screen settings to say the least when using USB dock and video adaptors - his primary complaint. There is not the independant DPI depth option for externally connected monitor as with other tablet models. And as the display is forced 16:10? resolution, including the external - 1920x1080 doesn't fit!. Top and bottom of the display is chopped off, all the display settings will say is 'external monitor is below 1920x1200 - some items may not fit on screen' No kidding?!?!?

And don't try and install generic Intel driver suite which has exactly the option to allow external monitor to dictate pixel ratio.. its blocked by manufacturer. So now the guys stuck with an external monitor that is next to hopeless for functionality. Correctly detected EDID and all too. The VGA adaptor they had didn't even detect the VGA input so that was out of the question too.

 

Bizzare functionality if the norm (or is it making them go buy a specific dock...)


 
 
 
 


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  # 1528423 8-Apr-2016 13:26
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networkn:

 

I just bought the HP X2 1012 and it's a superior machine in every sense of the word. Keyboard included in price, as is the pen, the keyboard is light years ahead, and with a 3 year warranty (onsite), the price difference was insignificant. It's the first 2-1 I've thought could reasonably be used for business. Also docking options are superior. 

 

Almost every Surface a customer has bought has been back for repairs, some multiple times. Not to mention they are readily available through the reseller channel.

 

I have nothing against MS Per Se, but it really feels like their IDEAS guys aren't on the same wave length as their implementation and testing people. Form over function and all that. It seems that way across most of their products hardware and software. We have had to stop selling their keyboards and mice because the letters on the keys rub off after about 2 weeks of use. 

 

 

Hi

 

Where did you buy this HP X2 1012 from, and what processor specs did you go for?
I would prefer an I5, but  would M3 be OK for normal browsing , a bit of word processing, and watching videos?

 

I am in the market for a 2 in one and currently own an ASUS T100 transformer, but am finding the 10" screen size a bit small and 

 

annoying. But perfect for travelling as I sue the same charger for my Android and tablet.  

 

I was looking towards buying a Surface Pro 3 or a Surface Pro 4 but a bit expensive

 

But reading the comments I am more interested in the HP which is delightful on the video presentation.

 

 

 

thanks


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  # 1528440 8-Apr-2016 13:49
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qwertee:

 

networkn:

 

I just bought the HP X2 1012 and it's a superior machine in every sense of the word. Keyboard included in price, as is the pen, the keyboard is light years ahead, and with a 3 year warranty (onsite), the price difference was insignificant. It's the first 2-1 I've thought could reasonably be used for business. Also docking options are superior. 

 

Almost every Surface a customer has bought has been back for repairs, some multiple times. Not to mention they are readily available through the reseller channel.

 

I have nothing against MS Per Se, but it really feels like their IDEAS guys aren't on the same wave length as their implementation and testing people. Form over function and all that. It seems that way across most of their products hardware and software. We have had to stop selling their keyboards and mice because the letters on the keys rub off after about 2 weeks of use. 

 

 

Hi

 

Where did you buy this HP X2 1012 from, and what processor specs did you go for?
I would prefer an I5, but  would M3 be OK for normal browsing , a bit of word processing, and watching videos?

 

I am in the market for a 2 in one and currently own an ASUS T100 transformer, but am finding the 10" screen size a bit small and 

 

annoying. But perfect for travelling as I sue the same charger for my Android and tablet.  

 

I was looking towards buying a Surface Pro 3 or a Surface Pro 4 but a bit expensive

 

But reading the comments I am more interested in the HP which is delightful on the video presentation.

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

Hi.

 

I am an HP reseller so I bought from HP. I went with an m5/i5, non 4G 256GB Model with 8GB Memory.

 

I think it's spectacular. I can't promise we would be the cheapest place in the country for one, but I am happy to sell you one and support it, if you wanted to make contact via PM.


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  # 1528502 8-Apr-2016 14:56
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Thanks

 

Will get in contact if I want to  purchase HP.


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  # 1528556 8-Apr-2016 16:07
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Have owned/used several Surface 1/2/3's and Pro 3/4's (maybe an Pro 2 as well?) Have loved them all with maybe the exception of the Surface 1/2 with their RT Windows. I haven't had any issues with  Surface Pro 4's, but maybe I just got a good batch?

 

I think the biggest downside to the Surface, is that as a sealed unit, any repair is a trip back to off to Microsoft in Australia, and you can also not remove the SSD without a very high chance of breaking the screen. This is a big problem, as many of our customers send their unit to us to be repaired, without their Hard Drive (even when using technologies like bitlocker), or with just an new HDD with an blank image in it, and keep their drive, and would be very unwilling to send a device off, to an unknown repairer in Austrailia, with their drive still in it.






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  # 1528627 8-Apr-2016 17:59
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RileyB:

 

Have owned/used several Surface 1/2/3's and Pro 3/4's (maybe an Pro 2 as well?) Have loved them all with maybe the exception of the Surface 1/2 with their RT Windows. I haven't had any issues with  Surface Pro 4's, but maybe I just got a good batch?

 

I think the biggest downside to the Surface, is that as a sealed unit, any repair is a trip back to off to Microsoft in Australia, and you can also not remove the SSD without a very high chance of breaking the screen. This is a big problem, as many of our customers send their unit to us to be repaired, without their Hard Drive (even when using technologies like bitlocker), or with just an new HDD with an blank image in it, and keep their drive, and would be very unwilling to send a device off, to an unknown repairer in Austrailia, with their drive still in it.

 

 

We sell an Enterprise warranty in NZ that allows the customer to get a new device so they can destroy the old one to physically destroy their data.

 

Its that trade off of having the thinnest Intel Core i device on the market.  Also visible screws are ugly.


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  # 1528650 8-Apr-2016 18:27
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nathan:

 

We sell an Enterprise warranty in NZ that allows the customer to get a new device so they can destroy the old one to physically destroy their data.

 

Its that trade off of having the thinnest Intel Core i device on the market.  Also visible screws are ugly.

 

 

Well that's not wasteful at all...





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  # 1528657 8-Apr-2016 18:45
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richms:

 

nathan:

 

We sell an Enterprise warranty in NZ that allows the customer to get a new device so they can destroy the old one to physically destroy their data.

 

Its that trade off of having the thinnest Intel Core i device on the market.  Also visible screws are ugly.

 

 

Well that's not wasteful at all...

 

 

 

 

In the immortal words of Meatloaf... You took the words right out of my Mouth!


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  # 1528681 8-Apr-2016 19:01
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The biggest problem with the Surface Pro tablets seems to be not so much the devices themselves as much as the dock.

 

The new style dock for the Surface Pro 3/4 is terrible, especially if you are trying to drive two external monitors.  That is a big part of problem that OP is talking about.  If you just use the device on its own it's not too bad, but once you plug it into that dock...

 

Even the SP3 connected to a dock with even one external monitor could be problematic, but try driving two monitors (which requires a third party adapter) and it all turns to crap.  It will frequently decide not light up one, or both, of the monitors requiring rebooting the tablet, turning monitors off/on several times until it decides to behave again.

 

The SP4 dock has two mini-DisplayPort sockets, but if you plug in two DVI monitors (which require third-party active mini-DisplyPort to DVI adapters) and you're supporting a customer with this configuration, you can expect frequent support calls and a very frustrated customer.

 

As Networkn had already pointed out, other vendors like HP produce a much more reliable device that so far doesn't seem to have the issues that the SP's do.

 

 


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