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Topic # 111416 2-Nov-2012 15:16
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I plan on getting UFB some time. Most cables in my street (power, phone, telstra clear) are overhead, so I figure it will be too, though it's not that important. Right now Telstra cable comes in overhead, runs through the guttering, down the outside of the building, then goes through the wall into my office. Telecom phone line (inactive) comes in a similar way I think, I've never really looked.

I plan to put the terminating equipment and a router/wap (may be all in one) up in the very high ceiling of my place. I'll run a conduit down an internal wall that will connect to the wired equipment like TV and PS3, the IP phone (when I get one), and my office computer, possibly with small routers in each place if I need them. The conduit would probably be inch wide pipe, as I'm taking the linings off a room tomorrow so I can install it then with no hassles.

Even if the fibre comes in underground I can send it up that conduit to the ceiling, then back down to distribute it.

How does this sound? Things that I mostly wonder about:
 - Can consumer networking equipment stand the heat in a ceiling? It probably reaches 40 degrees up there during the summer days.
 - Will running an inch wide pipe inside an internal wall weaken the structure at all?
 - Is there anything else I haven't though of?





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  Reply # 711023 2-Nov-2012 15:48
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timmmay: I plan on getting UFB some time. Most cables in my street (power, phone, telstra clear) are overhead, so I figure it will be too, though it's not that important. Right now Telstra cable comes in overhead, runs through the guttering, down the outside of the building, then goes through the wall into my office. Telecom phone line (inactive) comes in a similar way I think, I've never really looked.

I plan to put the terminating equipment and a router/wap (may be all in one) up in the very high ceiling of my place. I'll run a conduit down an internal wall that will connect to the wired equipment like TV and PS3, the IP phone (when I get one), and my office computer, possibly with small routers in each place if I need them. The conduit would probably be inch wide pipe, as I'm taking the linings off a room tomorrow so I can install it then with no hassles.

Even if the fibre comes in underground I can send it up that conduit to the ceiling, then back down to distribute it.

How does this sound? Things that I mostly wonder about:
 - Can consumer networking equipment stand the heat in a ceiling? It probably reaches 40 degrees up there during the summer days.
 - Will running an inch wide pipe inside an internal wall weaken the structure at all?
 - Is there anything else I haven't though of?



Is the attic an easy place to get to, to adjust your equipment? If not, put it in a more accessable place.

It shouldn't be a problem to put a 1" conduit down through the dwangs of a wall. I'd recommend that you have at least one extra conduit for future requirements also.




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  Reply # 711026 2-Nov-2012 15:54
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I have attic stairs, so it's quite easy to get up to. I wouldn't want to go up once a week, or even once a month really, but it only takes a few seconds to get up there.

I read an idea to put networking equipment in the top of a wardrobe rather than in the ceiling, to keep it a bit cooler. That's not a bad idea, but if I get the conduit in I can work that out later.

Good idea to put to conduits in. I'd probably space them out a bit so help prevent weakening it.




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  Reply # 711043 2-Nov-2012 16:50
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I really don't like the idea of putting this gear in the ceiling space. Like you say, the temperature range can be huge. Also, there is often a helluva draught up there in a wind. This could send dust and crap into the equipment. And that's before the spiders find a nice warm space!

I would get this gear into a more accessible space with better climate conditions.



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  Reply # 711049 2-Nov-2012 17:03
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Yeah I'm starting to think that. I'll use a cupboard or something I guess, I just need to get power in there. I don't know if I'll bother running conduit if I'm using a cupboard, I can just go down the back of the cupboard to get under the house.




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  Reply # 711133 2-Nov-2012 20:19
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I read a Telecommunications document some time ago, that outlined the do's and do not's and mostly it's don'ts.

This document may provide some food for thought.

Download the Premises Wiring Code of Practice [PDF 2.11 MB]

I just ended up looping a CAT6 from the termination point in and out the house to a secondary larger weather proof box to house VDSL2 splitter, data and phone line. Terminating it anywhere else in an old house seemed a no no.

With ADSL2, one CAT6 data line and a few daisy-chained phone lines (old original chicken wire) my needs were small and I couldn't be stuffed rewiring an old house when phones do the ring, ring thing just fine and all I needed was one line with good data connection.

I read I get UBF in 2015...Wooo..???..

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  Reply # 711819 4-Nov-2012 16:35
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I have my access point in the attic. No matter which brand of router/AP i use, none last more than 6 months.

The HRV system tells me our attic gets up to 55 degrees regularly. So thats probably why they fail so often.
The only reason i have it up there is because of the shape of our house. I would not advise anyone else to do so.




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  Reply # 711827 4-Nov-2012 16:48
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Thanks Ray, good to know. My new plan is to put it in the top of a wardrobe, not much ventilation in them but a lot better than up in the ceiling cavity, they don't generate much heat. Having it up high would mean I could use one AP for house instead of two, which would be a bonus.




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  Reply # 711914 4-Nov-2012 21:23
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timmmay: Having it up high would mean I could use one AP for house instead of two, which would be a bonus.


That is why mine is in the attic. I have a theory that the iron roof reflects some of the signal down through the ceiling into the rooms below - but not sure if this is true or not.
Depending upon the layout of your house, you may find it better to get an external antenna for your router. You can get them with an SMA connector, a short lead to a magnetic base and then a 5dbi antenna that screws onto the base.

The antenna could easily sit in the attic.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/networking-modems/wireless-networking/antennas/auction-529610930.htm

Note that when looking at these antennas, you will loose about 3dbi in the cable so a shorter cable is better.
A 5dbi antenna with a 1m cable only gives you a benefit of 2dbi. Most routers come with a 2 or 3dbi antenna.








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  Reply # 711921 4-Nov-2012 21:31
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Good idea, thanks Ray :-) It'd be about 2.8 meters high in the cupboard, so that may be enough.




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  Reply # 711944 4-Nov-2012 22:18
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We just had attic stairs put in. I've got our structured cabling up there meeting at a central point inside a Dynamix HWS cabinet. Just below in the hallway is a cupboard especially made with conduit in the wall.. That's where all the modems/routers etc will live. Our roof space gets very hot too.. I haven't measured it yet. Was also concerned about dust so protecting cable joins in cabinet and equipment in cupboard.




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  Reply # 712093 5-Nov-2012 10:19
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raytaylor:
timmmay: Having it up high would mean I could use one AP for house instead of two, which would be a bonus.


That is why mine is in the attic. I have a theory that the iron roof reflects some of the signal down through the ceiling into the rooms below - but not sure if this is true or not.
Depending upon the layout of your house, you may find it better to get an external antenna for your router. You can get them with an SMA connector, a short lead to a magnetic base and then a 5dbi antenna that screws onto the base.

The antenna could easily sit in the attic.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/networking-modems/wireless-networking/antennas/auction-529610930.htm

Note that when looking at these antennas, you will loose about 3dbi in the cable so a shorter cable is better.
A 5dbi antenna with a 1m cable only gives you a benefit of 2dbi. Most routers come with a 2 or 3dbi antenna.






You would have to be careful doing this with some routers I would have thought. Just because of MIMO if you put the two antenna (which most quailty AP's/routers have) to far apart it might end up worse than original.
I would say if you are going to the trouble of wall outlets run a cable for an AP on the ceiling. And with a basic Unifi costing only $140ish there isn't much reason not to.



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  Reply # 712098 5-Nov-2012 10:30
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chevrolux: I would say if you are going to the trouble of wall outlets run a cable for an AP on the ceiling. And with a basic Unifi costing only $140ish there isn't much reason not to.


Run a cable on the ceiling where? For an antenna up high in the ceiling?




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  Reply # 712155 5-Nov-2012 11:41
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Sorry should have said that better.
Run a Cat 6 cable to a central location and place an access point there that has the ability to be powered by PoE. Unifi's are cheap and very reliable. The basic 2.4Ghz are $140ish and if you want to spend (quite) a bit more they have the Unifi Pro which has 2.4 & 5Ghz with 3x3 MIMO. I have a Pro at home but it isn't being used to it's full potential as at the moment the only thing with 5Ghz that I have is a Galaxy S3 but I figured it is future proof for the next little while.



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  Reply # 712161 5-Nov-2012 11:50
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This cupboard I'll put things in is reasonably high, and is central to the body of the living area, so a WAP in the cupboard should be fine. I have one behind the home theatre system that works fine right now, plus the main AP down the back of the house is accessible it's just a bit far away so the signal isn't that strong.

There will be conduit into the ceiling so I can easily add Cat 6 cable later if I want an AP up in the ceiling, but given the temperatures and dust up there (it's super dusty) I'll avoid that if I can.

Thanks for the thoughts :)




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