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hdinsider
552 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #845802 26-Jun-2013 22:29

JimmyH:
DarthKermit: Component video is an analogue singnal, and not in HD.


Incorrect. Component can carry HD all the way up to 1080p.

And to answer the OPs question, yes Freeview terrestrial STBs that output HD over component do exist. Just make sure that you don't get one of the "official" freeview certified ones, as the Freeview spec that makers have to comply with to gain certification requires them to gimp the boxes in many ways. One of these is limiting analog output to SD only.

The Visione VE4000 box that I used to have would do HD over component. There were others, and I assume there still are.

The mainstream retaiulers are unlikely to have them - FV "leans" on them to carry only the official boxes and leaves them out of their advertising/propaganda if they don't. Your best bet is online.

The other option (which is a bit more complexity for set up but should be invisible to users) is something like an an HDFury - HDMI in, HD analog out. Again, you would have to order this online.


Freeview doesn't "lean" on retailers. Retailers want happy customers. Customers are made happy by set top boxes that have MHEG EPG support, automatically retune if there are issues like "consumer resetting the box to default", guaranteed compliance with the system and channel numbering that is consistent.

Boxes that are not compliant can make HD over component, but the downsides can be worse. Witness the lip sync errors that plague non compliant boxes.

Technical users can use any box and enjoy the benefits, non-technical viewers should stick with the compliant boxes.




don't mess with me.... i'm the hd insider....

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hdinsider
552 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #845803 26-Jun-2013 22:31

In my opinion...




don't mess with me.... i'm the hd insider....

Skolink
1081 posts

Uber Geek


  #845956 27-Jun-2013 10:35
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TiVo outputs FreeviewHD content over component in HD (1080i).
But let me just test tonight before you rush to Trademe (or Australia) to buy one.



B1GGLZ
1961 posts

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  #846090 27-Jun-2013 13:05
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Have you checked your TV's manual that it actually accepts Full HD via component input.
This from the specs for the latest Sony ex720
Video Signal 480/60i, 480/60p, 576/50i, 576/50p, 720/50p, 720/60p, 1080/50i, 1080/60i, 1080/24p (HDMI™ only), 1080/50p (HDMI™ / Component), 1080/60p (HDMI™ / Component)
Doesn't do 1080/24p via component but does the rest OK.
I don't know about older models.

JimmyH
2738 posts

Uber Geek


  #846411 27-Jun-2013 20:09
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hdinsider: Freeview doesn't "lean" on retailers. Retailers want happy customers. Customers are made happy by set top boxes that have MHEG EPG support, automatically retune if there are issues like "consumer resetting the box to default", guaranteed compliance with the system and channel numbering that is consistent.

Boxes that are not compliant can make HD over component, but the downsides can be worse. Witness the lip sync errors that plague non compliant boxes.

Technical users can use any box and enjoy the benefits, non-technical viewers should stick with the compliant boxes.



Your points are valid, and I agree that for most retailers stocking unapproved brands could create headaches.

But they most certainly do "lean" on retailers. I have been advised by two different retailers that FV tells them quite forcibly that they shouldn't stock units other than the "official" FV crippled, approved and labelled ones. They are threatened with repercussions like being left out of all the FV & digitial switchover propaganda (the pamphlets and ads about digital TV that list retailers to go to to update your equipment etc) if they do.

You also imply that FV tests boxes to ensure that they are quality units. I understand that isn't true, and that FV (I think it may have been in one of the ask-FV threads here) has been explicit that the FV logo on a box doesn't mean they are saying anything about the quality of the unit. It just means it has been designed to comply with their specs (essentially, that it has MHEG5 and that it has been appropriately crippled).

driller2000
907 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #846435 27-Jun-2013 21:17
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i reckon a new avr - bit dearer than a new decoder but way more flexible going forward

and not super exp eg.

http://www.avalon.co.nz/av-receiver-amps-/333-onkyo-tx-nr509.html

gumboot19
52 posts

Master Geek


  #846449 27-Jun-2013 21:47
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Component video output  will carry a full HD (1080P) signal 50 metres or more. It still is/ was a good system.
Is there anyway to modify your set-top box to allow this? like a hack or something.
HDMI was basically bought in to stop copy-right issues and to be a singe video audio connector system.



JimmyH
2738 posts

Uber Geek


  #846468 27-Jun-2013 22:25
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I have heard that some hardware has undocumented settings in hidden menus (like some DVD players and a very few multi-region BR players do for regions/zones) that will let this be enabled. However, not aware of anything currently on the market that offers this - perhaps others are?

However, if you don't mind spending a wee bit there are hardware solutions that you can connect the HDMI cable to, with unprotected HD over component being spat out the other side. The HDFury is the most well known, but there are others. That's the arrangement I will likely have when I (eventually) get round to reconfiguring my home entertainment setup.

hdinsider
552 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #846487 27-Jun-2013 23:21

gumboot19: Component video output  will carry a full HD (1080P) signal 50 metres or more. It still is/ was a good system.
Is there anyway to modify your set-top box to allow this? like a hack or something.
HDMI was basically bought in to stop copy-right issues and to be a singe video audio connector system.

Component is analog. The main advantage of HDMI is that it is digital avoiding an unnecessary conversion to analog and back.
I have HD component running from a Hyundai DTT box (non approved) into a Panasonic plasma. Looks as good as HDMI to me, and I know it shouldn't!




don't mess with me.... i'm the hd insider....

JimmyH
2738 posts

Uber Geek


  #847422 30-Jun-2013 16:25
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hdinsider:
Component is analog. The main advantage of HDMI is that it is digital avoiding an unnecessary conversion to analog and back.



Ummm... not quite.

Component is indeed analog. However, the main advantage of HDMI was that it's easier to copy protect. And that's an advantage from a studio's perspective, not a consumer's one. Copy protection can be done on component video (eg macrovision and CGMS/A) but it's simple and, at the time HDMI was rolled out, trivially defeatable with readily available countermeasures. HDMI enabled adding tougher algorithms and revocable keys etc to the mix. Still defeatable, but a bit harder for the average consumer.

There are advantages and disadvantages to HDMI from a consumers perspective. On the plus side with HDMI there is only one cable (compared to four/five - 3xvideo + audio) for component, and the hook-up is slightly easier for novices. On the minus side, the cables cost more, are less tolerant of long runs, and the signal is harder to split for distribution.

Picture quality wise, the digital->analog conversion is a bit of a red herring. Run 1080P video to even a big (60" plus) screen using either HDMI or good component cables and I doubt you could spot any difference.



richms
25277 posts

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  #847466 30-Jun-2013 18:16
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Difference is really apparant in the shadow areas where the analog will show a lot more stepping and banding.

Bright cartoons wont show it.

HDMI is a pig to split reliably with all that handshaking that goes on. Ideally I would like a splitter where I could just upload its own edid to it, and it spat that out to all the outputs since generally a display that cant do the HD audio formats will just get no audio when the HD is present, but if the splitter calculates the edid from what the connected displays can do, it will revert to stereo or dolby even into recievers which can do the HD audio. Same for picture. If a display cant do 24FPS, it will usually just blank out when 24 is sent into them, whereas if your splitter makes the edid, it will cause the source to revert to 60FPS, giving a massive period of blanking when the dumber display is turned on or has its input cycled.




Richard rich.ms

Skolink
1081 posts

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  #850344 7-Jul-2013 10:12
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Skolink: TiVo outputs FreeviewHD content over component in HD (1080i).
But let me just test tonight before you rush to Trademe (or Australia) to buy one.


I can't get the TiVo to output anything other than 720x576i over component. From what I have read it should do 1080i, but that may be the US firmware only.

old3eyes
8857 posts

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  #850515 7-Jul-2013 19:25
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Skolink:
Skolink: TiVo outputs FreeviewHD content over component in HD (1080i).
But let me just test tonight before you rush to Trademe (or Australia) to buy one.


I can't get the TiVo to output anything other than 720x576i over component. From what I have read it should do 1080i, but that may be the US firmware only.


Or Australian settings.  The book says HD over component but I found as you did 576i only..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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