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  Reply # 1664825 7-Nov-2016 10:15
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DjShadow:

 

Spyware:

 

Freeview are upgrading their two half transponders in 2018 to DVB-S2 H.264. You'll have to wait till then.

 

 

Wonder how long before the campaign to get everyone to upgrade their satellite boxes begins

 

 

 

 

Not too sure when that happens to general public but we have now been told that DVB-S2 is the standard to be Freeview Satellite Approved hence why we released the S7070rHD a few months back. 





 

 

Josh Hill 


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  Reply # 1664948 7-Nov-2016 12:49
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Spyware: UHD sets aren't in theory mainstream (and the decoders for H.265 satellite transmissions aren't mainstream given the modulation that will be used, i.e., DVB-S2X, has only recently had the standard ratified).


Note that when it comes to MPEG 2 transport streams (ie. the transport layer format used for most traditional digital television broadcasting), the video encoding is independent from the transmission standard. In other words: h.265/HEVC is not tied to DVB-S2X, and DVB-S2X is not tied to h.265/HEVC. In theory h.265/HEVC could be used in combination with DVB-S (...and MPEG 2 could be used with DVB-S2X - ugh!).

I suspect any Freeview Satellite update here in NZ will stick with "bog-standard" DVB-S2. Why?

 

     

  1. The nature of the DVB-S2X extension. My impression is that it's more targeted toward unicast and/or 2 way links where transmission parameters can be optimised for link conditions. For example, professional applications (feeds etc.) and satellite internet.
  2. Limitations of the D1 satellite transponders. Given the design and launch time-frame, it seems unlikely that the transponders would even support DVB-S2X.
  3. The existing pool of satellite dishes. Most dishes in NZ are ~65 cm. AFAIK that isn't large enough for reliable reception of broadcasts that utilise the "higher" modulation schemes added with DVB-S2X (64/128/256 APSK). Even 16 and 32 APSK from DVB-S2 may not be feasible unless the broadcast is very high power and/or has a sub-optimally low FEC ratio (ie. so much error correction that it would be better to use 8 PSK or even QPSK).
  4. The target audience. Freeview Satellite is (or was) intended to provide an back-stop for people who can't receive the Freeview HD DVB-T transmissions. Any ratcheting up of transmission parameters would be constrained by the "lowest common denominator" requirement that the broadcast must still be receivable in the wop-wops with a reasonably small dish.

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  Reply # 1665155 7-Nov-2016 16:28
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A lot of talk about DVB S2X its not really in use for anything other than 4k UHD tests. The S2X extension is a tweak to gain a little more bandwidth over DVB S2) as for H265 Hevc theres a few ethnic SD channels testing with it on Intelsat 19 Ku band. They look like crap around 1mbit each.

 

No need for Freeview to use it, nothing wrong with an upgrade to H264 DVB S2 for their current platform as they will have to remain Sky Compatible.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1665371 7-Nov-2016 21:55
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Apsattv: as for H265 Hevc theres a few ethnic SD channels testing with it on Intelsat 19 Ku band. They look like crap around 1mbit each.


Interesting. Is Lyngsat's IS 19 info out of date? Lyngsat only seems to show MPEG 2 and "MPEG 4" (presumably MPEG 4 part 10 h.264/AVC rather than MPEG 4 part 2 DivX/Xvid).

Anyhow, most video doesn't look very good at such low bit-rates. Obviously such streams don't reflect the full/true efficiency and capabilities of h.265/HEVC.

Apsattv: ...as they will have to remain Sky Compatible.


Great point. You're probably right, though it's a bit disappointing.

From what I've read, unless there's some kind of major breakthrough (not expected), there may not be any future DVB-*3 standards. Advanced DVB-*2 configurations (MIMO etc.) can already approach the Shannon theoretical efficiency limits quite closely. Therefore DVB-S2/S2X + h.265/HEVC appears to be the next step change after DVB-S2 + h.264/AVC. By 2018 I expect h.265/HEVC will be main-stream. The cost of hardware should have dropped significantly compared to today's costs. If Freeview can't or won't skip DVB-S2 + h.264/AVC, maybe they could at least require h.265/HEVC support for premium products.


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  Reply # 1665686 8-Nov-2016 12:50
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There is also NS3 which again has an increase over DVBS2-X

 

"Satellite modulators and demodulators with embedded NovelSat NS3 technology can typically achieve an increase in spectral efficiency of 40% to 60% compared with DVB-S2, the current industry standard for transmission. Using NovelSat modems equipped with NovelSat DUET software-based band reuse technology, the increase is as much as 100% with transmission speeds from 100 Kbps to 850 Mbps over a 72 MHz transponder, making NovelSat equipment the world’s most flexible and versatile satellite transmission solution."

 

 

 

As for IS19 Hevc channels, they are on the TVplus transponder tagged as "test" they may load as radios with clear audio on some receivers. On my Ultraplus I hit record, then transferred the .ts over to the pc and played them via vlc player to see what they were.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1665759 8-Nov-2016 14:32
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It's probably all Academic really as I expect by the time Freeview and others get around to updating Satellite transmission most people will be watching TV via Internet Streaming. I dumped Sky last month and haven't missed it at all except for the History Channel. I never watch live TV anymore except the News. All my viewing is now via Internet or whatever I've recorded off UHF with the ads removed. Makes for much more enjoyable viewing and nearly everything is HD with 5.1 sound. Now if only I could find History Channel (not the US one) streaming online it would be great.


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  Reply # 1665806 8-Nov-2016 15:47
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@B1GGLZ

 

Unfortunately the people who rely on Freeview Satellite because they can't access Freeview HD are often the same people whose Internet connection is not suitable for streaming. Therefore I suspect the accuracy of your prediction depends on whether the speed, reliability and capacity of those peoples' Internet connections improves between now and then.

 

 

 

Aside: does anybody know if Freeview are considering an upgrade to DVB-T2 and/or h.265/HEVC on the terrestrial network as well?


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  Reply # 1665826 8-Nov-2016 16:14
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Obviously won't happen until high percentage of UHD TVs with T2 tuners, maybe around 2023 as predicted for Europe.





Ross

 

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