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JWR

782 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385237 10-Sep-2015 20:43
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Hobchild:
KrazyKid: If they cannot provide a service then they cannot charge you.
Assuming you have made reasonable steps to allow them to get it  working (and it sounds like you have) I would say you can break your contract. 
If you are going to do this I would call them to explain what you want to do and talk to them.
I would follow that call up with an email stating what you explained over the phone and that you were terminating the contact.
Then stop paying.
You may have a case to claim a refund for the period you did not have service once fibre was installed.
I would not expect you to be entitled to any other monies.

Saying all this is the issue really a snap/2D issue or a chorus one. Will moving ISP change anything?

Have you asked them to stop charging you and credit the prior months while this issued is resolved?
Maybe they will say yes to that?
Can they put ADSL on for you?



My last conversation with them was very similar to this. That is when I found out that they would still hold me to my contract. I was actually quite shocked tbh. I have asked multiple times if at the least they can stop charging me and I get told the same thing every time, I will get a refund once the issue is solved but until then I have to keep paying. I even asked if I could receive extra data while this is being resolved (also a 2D mobile customer) and the guy I was taking to sounded pretty confident that they would but alas I never heard back from them on that.

I'm unsure if changing ISP would solve anything but at the least it would rule them out and put the accountability solely on Chorus. I should mention that it worked fine when it was initially installed the issue started two or three weeks afterwards.

They were going to switch me back to VDSL but then Chorus rung me and told me that I no longer had copper running to my house so that was impossible. I'm sure they could reinstall it but I think it's probably a case of who's going to pay for it.


A contract is between you and them.

You are both expected to hold to the contract.

IMO They have broken their contract with you by not providing you an Internet service.

As always, take proper legal advice. But, I would be horrified if they could legally force you to pay for a service they can't provide.

I find it extraordinary that the problem can't be fixed in a timely manner.

If it was me, I would be on the phone, voices would be raised, and I would keep asking for the supervisor, until I got high enough up the chain for something to be done.



604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385240 10-Sep-2015 20:47
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Aredwood: What happens if you do a ping or traceroute to a website? Do you know anyone else with a 2 deg account so you can try logging in with their details. When you say 900 meg are you on a gigatown connection? Or are you getting a way faster speed test than you should? Have you asked if they have blocked your connection due to a ddos attack being aimed at your IP address? As that has happened to me and no international websites work. But some local ones still do. Are you using the default DNS server's?


I'm not sure what all the info means when I do those tests sorry. One of the lines says request timed out that was the traceroute to Facebook.

2D tried putting me on a test account once so I believe that ruled out any account settings.

I am on a gigatown connection.

I haven't asked if they have blocked but I would assume they would have informed me of this. Also this affects all websites local and international although local ones are more likely to open.

Yes I'm using the default DNS servers.

 
 
 
 




604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385247 10-Sep-2015 20:56
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JWR:

A contract is between you and them.

You are both expected to hold to the contract.

IMO They have broken their contract with you by not providing you an Internet service.

As always, take proper legal advice. But, I would be horrified if they could legally force you to pay for a service they can't provide.

I find it extraordinary that the problem can't be fixed in a timely manner.

If it was me, I would be on the phone, voices would be raised, and I would keep asking for the supervisor, until I got high enough up the chain for something to be done.


Haha yes been there done that. I will say that some of their call centre reps are a lot easier to get angry with than others though.

5595 posts

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  # 1385250 10-Sep-2015 20:57
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freitasm: [snip] Tried different MTU configuration?


This, or an IPv6 issue?

JWR

782 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385255 10-Sep-2015 21:15

Hobchild:
JWR:

A contract is between you and them.

You are both expected to hold to the contract.

IMO They have broken their contract with you by not providing you an Internet service.

As always, take proper legal advice. But, I would be horrified if they could legally force you to pay for a service they can't provide.

I find it extraordinary that the problem can't be fixed in a timely manner.

If it was me, I would be on the phone, voices would be raised, and I would keep asking for the supervisor, until I got high enough up the chain for something to be done.


Haha yes been there done that. I will say that some of their call centre reps are a lot easier to get angry with than others though.



A usual progression is to get them to the stage where they can say they aren't in a position to change policy, help any further etc..


At that point, hit them with 'if you can't help, then I want to talk to your supervisor'.

They will be trained to block that. But, just keep repeating it over and over till 1. they get supervisor, or 2. hangup.

At that point, you have to write them an old fashioned letter.

Make sure to mention that call centre said they could not help you, would not forward you to a supervisor and hung up on you.

That way, you can bypass the call center and make it the problem of someone more senior.

Also, with any luck, you will get a name to contact in future.



604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385261 10-Sep-2015 21:22
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RunningMan:
freitasm: [snip] Tried different MTU configuration?


This, or an IPv6 issue?


IPV6 issue has been ruled out. I'm sure we would've tried different MTU configurations as well. I don't think there is much else to try modem settings wise.

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  # 1385290 10-Sep-2015 22:46
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Try asking them to switch you to a slower plan such as the 30/10 plan. Partly because a long time ago Snap had problems with the 200/200 plan that were similar to your problem. And partly because a speed change puts a new request through the Chorus provisioning system. As the problem seems like a malfunctioning rate limiter, packet loss somewhere between you and 2 degrees, or a router somewhere that chokes on bursts of data.





 
 
 
 


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  # 1385319 11-Sep-2015 00:40
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Aredwood: Try asking them to switch you to a slower plan such as the 30/10 plan. Partly because a long time ago Snap had problems with the 200/200 plan that were similar to your problem. And partly because a speed change puts a new request through the Chorus provisioning system. As the problem seems like a malfunctioning rate limiter, packet loss somewhere between you and 2 degrees, or a router somewhere that chokes on bursts of data.


That is quite a good idea.
Sometimes the consumer needs to entice the isp to do things which can fix chorus' systems.


Otherwise, if you have had enough and decide its time to inform them you are leaving since they have not upheld their end of their end of the contract, then:
 - They cannot claim to hold you to a contract
 - Install a call recording app on your phone
 - You do need to inform them that any outstanding charges on your account are now "in dispute"
 - Also inform them that "due to the lack of service, the contract you had previously agreed to has been voided by the lack of service" and as such "it is no longer permissible to pass any of your private contact details which they may hold on record to any collection agency or to other representative"

Ensure you use those words exactly during the conversations and save them.

Of course as others have said, if you choose it is best to seek legal advice if they persist on holding you to "the contract".
If chorus is holding 2d to a contract, they too have a right out of it so that is no excuse to hold you in.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here






604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385364 11-Sep-2015 08:30
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Aredwood: Try asking them to switch you to a slower plan such as the 30/10 plan. Partly because a long time ago Snap had problems with the 200/200 plan that were similar to your problem. And partly because a speed change puts a new request through the Chorus provisioning system. As the problem seems like a malfunctioning rate limiter, packet loss somewhere between you and 2 degrees, or a router somewhere that chokes on bursts of data.


Ok thanks, I'll ring them tonight after work and try this.



604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1385911 11-Sep-2015 20:30
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I managed to successfully login to Geekzone today, so I'm happily typing this on my PC. Apologies in advance if there are any double posts or anything.

I rang them earlier and although I'm hardly ecstatic I am a little less upset. They have verified that I will not pay any more until the matter is resolved and I am now in direct contact via email with the engineer in charge of my case which makes me feel a lot more positive that they're actually doing something about it. I'll keep you all posted.



604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1392178 22-Sep-2015 19:54
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Well I said I'd keep everyone posted but to be honest nothing has really happened since my last post. I have been in contact with the engineer and he has had me run some commands on their test probe they sent down as he is having trouble accessing it. My thoughts is he is having trouble connecting to it because it is a bad connection and no amount of commands from my end is going to help that but what would I know. 

Also I did ask that they put me down onto a slower plan to which I was told that I was already on the 30/10 plan which is just wrong as when I do a speed test it records 900+ down, mind you it also seems to think I'm in Wellington.

Oh and they have sent me another fritz box, the engineer doesn't know why. I now have four.

779 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1392193 22-Sep-2015 20:14
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Oh and they have sent me another fritz box, the engineer doesn't know why. I now have four.


That made me laugh. Hope it gets sorted before you get a fifth.

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  # 1392202 22-Sep-2015 20:28
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You have now had more than 3 months without a working connection.
You should not have been charged a cent, as you have not received a service.
A power company could not charge you if they didn't deliver power - why should an internet provider be different?

I don't understand why you haven't left 2degrees - you have nothing to lose.

EDIT ... except four Fritz boxes.




Sideface




604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1392362 22-Sep-2015 23:36
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Sideface: You have now had more than 3 months without a working connection.

 

You should not have been charged a cent, as you have not received a service.

 

A power company could not charge you if they didn't deliver power - why should an internet provider be different?

 

 

I don't understand why you haven't left 2degrees - you have nothing to lose.

 

 

EDIT ... except four Fritz boxes.

 

 

Yeah four Fritz boxes and a fight on my hands to get the money back they owe me and to get out of paying for "breaking my contract".

 

 

But I guess I might as well prepare myself for that because I really don't see this ever getting resolved. It's a shame I can't look up and see what the other ISP's are offering though.

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  # 1392371 23-Sep-2015 00:59
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Sounds like there is some form of connection between the router/test box they've sent you and the Snap/2dg network, just not a reliable one. If I were in your situation I'd be trying with a different router entirely, or connecting my computer straight up to the ONT to see if the same issue occurred.

Would be interesting to see traceroutes to various addresses posted here such as google.com, 8.8.8.8, trademe.co.nz, etc.
Check http://www.wikihow.com/Traceroute if unsure how to do them.

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