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BDFL - Memuneh
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  #753689 31-Jan-2013 10:15
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  #754036 31-Jan-2013 19:05
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Kyanar: ... Searching for any music, you are almost guaranteed to run across a site purporting to offer all you can eat access to millions of songs for a low monthly subscription if you install their software and hand over your card number.  They always claim to be completely legal.  If she came across one of these she probably did think it was a legal site and that she was signing up to a legitimate service.  And trying to remove the software may not necessarily succeed.


Some interesting comments there.

My take away is that if you're not confident then just use iTunes... ie - just use iTunes when buying on line and that's it.






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  #754042 31-Jan-2013 19:19
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reven: am I the only one who thinks $616 is pretty light, and it wouldnt really bother me?

sure its $616, but max is $15,000, so $616 seems like nothing.


No I think the fine is well out of proportion.

I accept the $25 + $25 + filing fees, but I also feel as a first offense that should have been considered the deterrent in it self.

We are talking about 9 minutes of music here.

I would suggest $120 a song is reasonable for a second offense and $1200 for a third and so on to $15,000.

I would also agree that after 12 months, if we start to see many of these cases then perhaps the public message isn't getting there and we do need to start at $120 per song, but with no public education on this issue, I don't think it's fair currently.

The stats prove that we just can't tolerate fast driving.

We consider that 10 - 15km/h = $80 is a clear message.

I would like to RIANZ to explain to me how 9 minutes of music is even close to the scale of potential impact of 65kmph in a suburban road with children playing in the area?

Currently my view is that the punishment is well out of whack and personally that does more to drive me to personal protest not law abiding.

Having said that, personally this just makes me choose not to purchase music at all and simply listen to what I have already purchased over the years.  I also don't purchase it as a gift any more.

These music guys don't seem to have seen what happened to Mirosoft and the legion of guys who now choose FLOSS, the same is going to happen in the content space.









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  #754057 31-Jan-2013 19:48
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freitasm: Interesting break down, including her defense on Techdirt.


I LOL'ed when i followed the link from this to the last case they 'tried'

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121019/01563020757/first-three-strikes-case-nz-dropped-after-it-becomes-clear-accused-didnt-file-share.shtml

"This case exemplifies just how unjust and unfair the law is.If you are the account holder you will be responsible for the actions of anyone using the account. There is no way for non-technical people to monitor or control what their flatmates or other people sharing the internet connection are doing. Even IT professionals would struggle to do so with the normal tools available on a home network.

The provisions in the law allowing for an internet account to be cut off have been suspended for now. This was because it is becoming increasingly clear that an internet account is critical for engaging in modern society. However, the effect of this law was still the same - the defendant panicked at these allegations and cancelled her account, cutting off her entire flat from the internet.

The law is meant to act as a deterrent to infringing copyright, but the way it is written it is actually an incentive. "Just use a connection that doesn't have your name on the account and they'll be be the one who is penalised!" The only deterrent is to becoming an internet account holder.

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  #754248 1-Feb-2013 09:12
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Sorry, slightly off topic;
Reading more information from the Tech Liberty website I came across details of the IPAP reports into infringement notices (here).  Here are the stats;

  • DTS - no complaints received.
  • Maxnet - no complaints received and a very minimal report (bottom of page).
  • Orcon - received 234 complaints, sent 198 notices, received 16 challenges.
  • Slingshot (PDF) - received 473 complaints, sent 398 notices, received 14 challenges.
  • Telecom - takes a very minimal approach, just states it has complied.
  • TelstraClear - received 818 complaints, issued 540 notices, received 25 challenges.
  • Vodafone - received 538 complaints, issued 350 notices, received 21 challenges.
  • Xtreme - received 2 complaints, issued 0 notices.

Now that seems to be a disproportionately high number for TelstraClear (Vodafone Fixed) - I remember arguing that fixed IP adresses would make people sitting ducks - anyone care to comment/argue still?

If that's not the case then are we saying that more copyright infringers choose to use TCL - perhaps because of their great connections and speeds?

Does anyone know the spread of customer base between the IPAPs?  Does this appear high?




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  #754257 1-Feb-2013 09:30
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TelstraClear is the second largest fixed line ISP in New Zealand. They don't shape or limits connections. Of course they're going to get a high number. It's just statistical...






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  #754260 1-Feb-2013 09:32
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freitasm: TelstraClear is the second largest fixed line ISP in New Zealand. They don't shape or limits connections. Of course they're going to get a high number. It's just statistical...

Interesting that Telecom has not provided any figures - I guess that would put it into perspective.




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  #754270 1-Feb-2013 10:02
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I am guessing that given this is a Tribunal Decision,  it is appealable/reviewable in the High Court, 

It will be interesting to see if any of the Internet lobby groups believe it is so unfair that they will fund such an action in the High Court....

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  #754277 1-Feb-2013 10:14
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Kyanar: No it isn't, it's the Copyright Tribunal, not a Disputes Tribunal.


Quite correct, I should have paid a wee bit more attention Embarassed My last sentence still stands though!

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  #756293 5-Feb-2013 20:44
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reven: am I the only one who thinks $616 is pretty light, and it wouldn't really bother me?

sure its $616, but max is $15,000, so $616 seems like nothing.

The price of 20 movies @ $30 per pop on itunes. Or 257 songs @ 2.39 each. Buying legally is too flippin expensive based on pure greed by the music and movie industries. 

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  #758858 10-Feb-2013 08:18
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Looks like a second one has just come though: http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/8283595/Kids-take-blame-for-illegal-download 

Although it doesn't set out the whole decision, the amount looks like it follows the same format as the first, given that it was only 2 songs this time. Nice to see we have spent our precious tax dollars shutting down such egregious offending.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  #758860 10-Feb-2013 08:33
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FTA:

"Rianz, which must pay $25 for each warning letter sent, wanted him to fork out $1681 in fines and expenses, and suggested the tribunal consider the amount people are fined for driving without a licence or parking in disabled parks, or fines of up to $480 handed out in Germany for the same offences."

Are you a consultant for the RIANZ now, Don?





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  #758864 10-Feb-2013 08:43
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Don can't reply right now...he's just speeding down to K-Mart

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  #758866 10-Feb-2013 08:52
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I think the fine is fair, I think at $600 she won't be doing it again. She did get three chances, you can't really claim ignorance to breaking the law, if you punch someone and they die, even though it wasn't your intent they're still dead. It's funny that the govt receives almost all of the money though, the time it takes to lodge one of these complaints would be immense I imagine, seems almost a waste of time for the complainant other than the 'principle'.

 

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