New MySky HDi copy protection

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Wizzid

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#34385 23-May-2009 11:34

manaia: A new software version 2.1.0.2 for the MySKY HDi went out last night. It should improve/fix the problem with lockups when three tuners are recording.

One feature of the new software seems to be new copy protection of SD SVideo outputs of HD material both from the scart and SVideo outputs of MySky HDi. That is my DVD recorder won't allow recording of either any current TV3 broadcasts or previously HDi recorded TV3 shows from a month ago, recorded before the update. Similarly Movie channels won't allow external recording at all, but so far Sky sport seems to record so when my MySky HDD fills up at least I can time shift that to DVD.

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#217174 23-May-2009 11:54

I thought that was how the HDi had always worked?

From memory you could record from an analogue output on all channels initially but this stopped around the same time as the upgrade for the 4th tuner which enabled macrovision on the analogue outputs for most content.

Wizzid

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#217196 23-May-2009 12:39

Well until, and including last weekend I could time-shift Sky Movies or TV3 shows etc to SD DVD-R to clear space on MySky HDi HDD. At an average of 7% disc space used per movie the HDD fills rapidly. Last night is the first time I've failed to be able to do so.

vexxxboy

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#217209 23-May-2009 12:49

i could see why they would stop it, what is the difference from what you are doing and someone downloading the film from the internet and storing it on dvd, boils down to theft and recording shows and films of Tv was always illegal , even in the days of vhs . it looks like sky has found a way of stopping it. im not saying i agree with it but thats another argument.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

rugrat

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#217235 23-May-2009 15:44

Wizzid: Well until, and including last weekend I could time-shift Sky Movies or TV3 shows etc to SD DVD-R to clear space on MySky HDi HDD. At an average of 7% disc space used per movie the HDD fills rapidly. Last night is the first time I've failed to be able to do so.

Regarding 7% disc space sky movies, if don't care about HD, which if recorded to DVD-R would have gone to SD anyway, record off movies 2. Should only use 2-3% disc space.

When a movie doesn't show in HD I usually record off movies 2, never thought I'd be glad for the movies 2 channel.

Wizzid

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#217522 24-May-2009 21:09

Being optomistic, from UK experiencence, maybe this is just deja vue of a software cockup there 5 months back:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/04/television-sky-programme-backups

in short Sky admitted:

"Sky's only official statement on the issue is: "Following a recent system upgrade, there was an unforeseen issue with some Sky+ boxes relating to their copy function ... we isolated the cause of the problem ... and we fully resolved [it] a week later after testing a solution.We'd like to apologise for any disruption this unforeseen problem caused."

The company insists that it has not changed its home copying policy, which only uses CGMS-A/Macrovision to protect Sky Box Office pay-per-view programmes - these are automatically deleted from the Sky+ hard drive and can't be copied from the PVR.

That will be a relief to many Sky+ users. But the episode is a stark reminder that if broadcasters want to stop (or at the very least, disrupt) viewers recording their programmes, the technology to let them do it is already in place."

I ask:Wot about NZ?

SepticSceptic

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#217627 25-May-2009 12:23

Well, for me that about kills any idea of upgrading to MySKyHDI. Having the ability to off load from the recorder, and then watch at a (much) later time, or watching prerecorded shows on the PC whilst I'm doing other "computery things" is a must have.

Guess I will stick to my good old S1 Tivo. HD it aint, but records every FTA and Sky channel I want, on time, every time, without Serieslink hassles, no reboots. And I can easily transfer anything recorded on the Tivo back to the PC for later viewing pleasure.

Haven't cracked it the other way yet ( from PC back to the Tivo), but that aint no biggie... might be soon though, with all the good shows getting cancelled out of the USA :-(

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manaia

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#217741 25-May-2009 16:22

The latest MySKY HDi software release fixed a bug in CGMS-A signalling: where the MySKY should have been signalling 'copy once' it was signalling 'copy no more'. The latter function is less implemented in DVD recorders so the bug did not a lot of problems, though some Sony devices picked it up. 'Copy once' should allow recording to the HDD, if available, or to a CPRM-compatible disk.

sbiddle

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#217751 25-May-2009 16:49

SepticSceptic: Well, for me that about kills any idea of upgrading to MySKyHDI. Having the ability to off load from the recorder, and then watch at a (much) later time, or watching prerecorded shows on the PC whilst I'm doing other "computery things" is a must have.

The issue is that our copyright law says format shifting of video is illegal. Because it's illegal content owners and companies such as Sky will happily use DRM..

SepticSceptic

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#218370 27-May-2009 16:33

sbiddle:
SepticSceptic: Well, for me that about kills any idea of upgrading to MySKyHDI. Having the ability to off load from the recorder, and then watch at a (much) later time, or watching prerecorded shows on the PC whilst I'm doing other "computery things" is a must have.

The issue is that our copyright law says format shifting of video is illegal. Because it's illegal content owners and companies such as Sky will happily use DRM..

And so is recording to VCR, speeding and jaywalking.

Their blind adherance to outmoded distribution techniques is the industry's loss, and my gain. It's a circular argument, and probably outside the forum guidelines.

Roll on 2011 !

Wizzid

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#218927 28-May-2009 19:32

SepticSceptic:
sbiddle:
SepticSceptic: Well, for me that about kills any idea of upgrading to MySKyHDI. Having the ability to off load from the recorder, and then watch at a (much) later time, or watching prerecorded shows on the PC whilst I'm doing other "computery things" is a must have.

The issue is that our copyright law says format shifting of video is illegal. Because it's illegal content owners and companies such as Sky will happily use DRM..

And so is recording to VCR, speeding and jaywalking.

Their blind adherance to outmoded distribution techniques is the industry's loss, and my gain. It's a circular argument, and probably outside the forum guidelines.

Roll on 2011 !

That's also interesting in the light of the fact that the NZ Sky decoder and Sky HDi has, as a selling point, an outlet labelled "recorder" on the back but it's now only been very recently changed to be recognized as not available for casual use except for non-conventional recording hardware/software.

Geeks are okay 'cos we can understand what's been implemented (copy once, now), but for the previous regular users of the facility (to whom -RW VR mode as a new variant means nothing): that must be a frustration.

I mean, good heavens, no region 4 person (loser) is surely going to distribute a TV3 show (now copy once protected) or movie that has been around for much more than a year or two in region 1 already.   Who'd want a copy with NZ sky vision logo vision embedded?   Ukraine?   Region 5 or 6?   Potential piracy?   Desperate?

The NZ law has only been implemented, as I understand it, in commonsense previously for REAL crims like the local guy that pirated a version of the local great NZ's "Siones' Wedding" before it was distributed, a really bad thing to do, despicable for all.   That conviction was a very good thing.   Convicted. Pirates hung and quartered.   A good deterrant.

My opinion, as I've paid the SKY subscription for the services from which the copyright owners earn their income pro rata after Cinema and DVD and PPV royalties (currently about 50% each [cinema and DVD] on year of release) in US. I can time shift as I've done since the US Sony court decision 25 or more years back. The New Zealand INTERPRETATION of the law seems agree with the commonsence intent rather than the letter of the law of old.   Thank God.   Crims go to jail, time-shifters enjoy their favourite, just later!

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#219186 29-May-2009 10:17

As I said on a parallel thread to this. If Sky are going to be this draconian they need to put a bigger HDD in their MySkyHDi boxes. 1TB would be a good starting point!

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Klathman

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#219202 29-May-2009 10:50

It's just typical of what's happening world-wide.

Have a look on the green button about the ICT flag on FTA in the states and canada. Some stations have been randomly turning it on and off to such an extent that as MCE religiously obeys the ICT tag that you can't watch the program but the set top boxes that don't obey it are fine.

There's always a way around it for those that want to but the media companies seem more intent on stopping those that have no idea or intent to distribute media. Same with the likes of DRM in music. It doesn't stop those with the intent to pirate just the casual users.

But anyway this isn't really about whether DRM implementations are good or bad but Sky's implementation. So yes they are using it and if you want to play with their toys then they will force you to play their way. Just as a kicker they can change the rules whenever they like and you better damn well thank them for it. You could complain about it but don't hold your breath. Welcome to the new digital world.

Wizzid

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#219541 29-May-2009 21:21

Klathman: It's just typical of what's happening world-wide.

Have a look on the green button about the ICT flag on FTA in the states and canada. Some stations have been randomly turning it on and off to such an extent that as MCE religiously obeys the ICT tag that you can't watch the program but the set top boxes that don't obey it are fine.

There's always a way around it for those that want to but the media companies seem more intent on stopping those that have no idea or intent to distribute media. Same with the likes of DRM in music. It doesn't stop those with the intent to pirate just the casual users.

But anyway this isn't really about whether DRM implementations are good or bad but Sky's implementation. So yes they are using it and if you want to play with their toys then they will force you to play their way. Just as a kicker they can change the rules whenever they like and you better damn well thank them for it. You could complain about it but don't hold your breath. Welcome to the new digital world.

You put it more succinctly than I. I concur. Dumb solution from Sky this time.

Wizzid

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#220463 1-Jun-2009 17:06

Of course now TV1 & TV2 are upscaled to HD on Sky, they're copy protected too.

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#225722 16-Jun-2009 23:05

I understood that recording FTA TV for personal viewing was legal. If not, I do wonder why they would let VCRs be sold for all those years? Personally, I don't think that recording a movie for later viewing when I have paid $80+ a month to recieve the feed exactly counts as "stealing" - either for the FTA channels or for sky movies where I am paying them handsomely for the right to watch the film. It's not as if I am on selling them or anything like that!

This thread is relevant to me as I am thinking of upgrading to an HDi box, but won't if this nonsense is rampant. Currently they must only be doing it on the HDi box, as my panny recorder obeys macrovision religiously and has never refused to record any chanel off the normal digital box. Its predecessor (also a panny box) did lock up with copy protection messages once or twice on the old UHF sky box, but I think a fluctuating signal just confused it.

Anyhow, given that I tend to burn quite a bit to DVD to watch on the laptop in the hotel when travelling for work trips etc, inability to do so meand that the HDi box is off the upgrade agenda. I also encode the discs to XVID to watch on my media player box.

Has anyone tested whether hooking up a hardware macrovision supressor between the HDi and the DVD recorder will defeat whatever it is SKY is doing? I think I have one lying around somewhere, dating from when I transferred my video tapes to DVD a few years ago ..... assuming I can find it of course.

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