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Dial111

972 posts

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#315375 9-Jul-2024 16:43
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Hi all

First off apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

To start, a week ago I purchased a vehicle that a saw on trade me, I went to the used car dealership, did the usual visual check and took it for a test drive happy days.

As I’m entering into the sales agreement I ask the dealer a couple questions about the mechanical history of the car and if there is any issues he knows about, he said NO only the things I spotted like a tyre with a bulge in the side wall, he then says “oh by the way this is a sale on behalf so we are not liable for any issues and you’d need to contact the current owner if you have any issues” basically saying they they take no responsibility.

Sale goes through, and I drive off.. the next day I have the tyres replaced (I work in the industry so tyres isn’t a problem) and I want to put tyres on I trust. I then take the car for a service and I get a call from the mechanic saying the car has the wrong springs fitted and there’s bolts welded to the chassis to hold the springs in, and this has caused the top mounts and bushes to not be acceptable for a WOF, along with a couple other issues that are not related to the safety of the vehicle.

I call the dealer and as expected he’s washing his hands of all responsibility and at this time is acting as a medium between me and the seller which is a slow process so far but the seller has said he will buy new springs but this is dragging on and I’m unsure if they think buying new springs and I foot the bill for the install and repairs is their answer.

So with that said I have looked into my rights and from what I can find is

- if the dealers gst#/company name is on the CIN, it’s a Dealer sale not private even if the say it’s a private sale as they received the money directly from me.


This link https://www.cab.org.nz/article/KB00001534 goes into it

And also this I found online



Am I covered under the CGA? And should I cease all communication with the dealer and file with the DT or continue to negotiate in good faith that the seller will remedy the issue?

One note: I have screen shots of the trade me listing which has in the listing “AA SAFETY CERTIFIED” which to me is false advertising.

Any advice pertaining to what my rights may be would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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RunningMan
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  #3257805 9-Jul-2024 16:50
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Who did you pay? What does any recieptt/invoice etc. say?




Dial111

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  #3257806 9-Jul-2024 16:50
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May I add I have mentioned this to the dealer that they are responsible and their reply was “I don’t think so” and dismissed my findings and were quite confident that they have no obligations under the CGA or FTA and when I mentioned I could ask my lawyer the said “you can do that” which I feel is they are pretty confident or they want to see if I’m bluffing.

I’m happy to go through the DT if I’ve got a leg to stand on which probably means I’ll have to get the car repaired at my cost and claim back the losses.

Dial111

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  #3257808 9-Jul-2024 16:53
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RunningMan:

Who did you pay? What does any recieptt/invoice etc. say?



I paid the dealer, the receipt has the dealer name and gst number on it. They put on the invoice “sold on behalf of a private seller so we are not liable under the CGA or FTA” which I’m lead to believe doesn’t absolve them from any responsibility



mentalinc
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  #3257813 9-Jul-2024 17:05
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Sounds like you've skipped a pile of due diligence here..

 

What is the date of the WOF?

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/buying-and-selling-a-vehicle/selling-a-vehicle/

 

"the vehicle has a warrant of fitness (WoF) or certificate of fitness (CoF) that is no more than one month old when the buyer takes the vehicle."

 

 

 

The "AA SAFETY CERTIFIED" per below, means it was imported into NZ and got a WOF at that time... So seems you expected something else? maybe a proper AA pre purchase check? but that is not what they have said it is...

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/what-do-these-aa-windscreen-stickers-mean/





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RunningMan
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  #3257817 9-Jul-2024 17:09
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You could contact community law for advice to confirm if Consumer Guarantees Act applies. If it does, a reasonable person probably wouldn't have bought the car with such a big issue so you could reject the car. https://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/whole.html#DLM312828 

 

Keep a record of any communications with the dealer, preferably by emailing them so everything is written down.


Batman
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  #3257818 9-Jul-2024 17:11
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the place to go is the motor vehicle disputes tribunal

 

https://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/motor-vehicle-dealer-disputes/

 

all the best


cruxis
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  #3257823 9-Jul-2024 17:21
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From the lawyer of chatgpt 

 

Dealer Sale vs. Private Sale:

 

  • Dealer Sale: If the dealership facilitated the sale, advertised the car on their premises, and received the payment directly from you, it generally qualifies as a dealer sale. The presence of the dealer's GST number or company name on the Consumer Information Notice (CIN) reinforces this.
  • Private Sale: If the dealership was merely acting as an intermediary without making any representations or receiving payment on behalf of the seller, it might be considered a private sale.

     

  1.  

    Steps to Take:

     

    • Document Everything: Keep detailed records of all communications with the dealer and the seller. Document the mechanical issues identified by your mechanic.
    • Formal Complaint: Send a formal written complaint to the dealer outlining the issues and citing your rights under the CGA and FTA. Request a clear resolution, such as the dealer covering the cost of repairs.
    • Dispute Resolution: If the dealer refuses to cooperate, you can lodge a complaint with the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal (MVDT). They handle disputes between consumers and motor vehicle traders.
    • Consumer Protection: Contact Consumer Protection or Citizens Advice Bureau for additional guidance and support.

 

In summary, based on the information provided, it seems likely that the sale could be classified as a dealer sale, making the dealership responsible under the CGA. However, a definitive determination would require examining the specific details of the transaction and the documentation provided.


 
 
 

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Dial111

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  #3257832 9-Jul-2024 18:04
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mentalinc: What is the date of the WOF?

WOF expires September this year.

I wondered why the mechanic said it doesn’t have a fresh WOF.

LostBoyNZ
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  #3257840 9-Jul-2024 18:26
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If I'm not wrong, unless you're using the vehicle for business purposes, they cannot opt out of the CGA. I think you'd have a very strong case if you lodge one with the disputes tribunal. But yes as someone mentioned above, it's vital to keep a record of everything.

 

Contracting out of the Consumer Guarantees Act

 

A retailer or supplier must not tell you the CGA does not apply or try to get you to sign a contract saying it doesn't apply.

 

The only exception is where products or services are for a business purpose and:

 

  • you as the buyer and the seller are in trade and agree to this
  • the agreement is in writing
  • it is fair and reasonable to do so.

Source: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer-laws/consumer-guarantees-act#:~:text=finder%20for%20services-,Rights%20of%20businesses,for%20commercial%20or%20business%20purposes.





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Dial111

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  #3257844 9-Jul-2024 18:34
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LostBoyNZ:

If I'm not wrong, unless you're using the vehicle for business purposes, they cannot opt out of the CGA. I think you'd have a very strong case if you lodge one with the disputes tribunal. But yes as someone mentioned above, it's vital to keep a record of everything.


Contracting out of the Consumer Guarantees Act


A retailer or supplier must not tell you the CGA does not apply or try to get you to sign a contract saying it doesn't apply.


The only exception is where products or services are for a business purpose and:



  • you as the buyer and the seller are in trade and agree to this

  • the agreement is in writing

  • it is fair and reasonable to do so.


Source: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer-laws/consumer-guarantees-act#:~:text=finder%20for%20services-,Rights%20of%20businesses,for%20commercial%20or%20business%20purposes.



Thanks. The amount of stress this is causing is wicked.

mentalinc
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  #3257847 9-Jul-2024 18:47
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Does anything say "as is where is"? but not having a new WOF from a dealer is a rather concerning.





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Dial111

972 posts

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  #3257851 9-Jul-2024 18:56
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mentalinc:

Does anything say "as is where is"? but not having a new WOF from a dealer is a rather concerning.



No, nothing stating that on the trade me listing or the CIN

In regards to the WOF, your link states that the seller must obtain written permission that the buyer accepts the car with its current WOF if a new WOF isn’t issued at the time of hand over.

I certainly didn’t give them any permission written or verbal nor did they inform me, but I didn’t ask either as I’ve never heard of this before, this is only my second car.

freitasm
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  #3257873 9-Jul-2024 20:07
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Motor Vehicle Disputes. It's not expensive and quick. We had a problem with a dealer once. The problem "disappeared" the day before the hearing.




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Dial111

972 posts

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  #3257954 9-Jul-2024 22:35
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freitasm: Motor Vehicle Disputes. It's not expensive and quick. We had a problem iwrh a dealer. The problem "disappeared" the day before the hearing.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

I have since drafted an email to the dealer to inform them on what resolution I require and if declined I will lodge a claim with the MVDT for full compensation for repairs or rejecting the vehicle.

 

I have also have included evidence to support my case with links to relevant information online supporting this and photos of the CIN and Sales agreement which show the sale was through the dealer and payment was made directly to the dealer.

 

Should I withhold this information from this email or is there no harm to my case by 'showing my hand' for a lack of better words.

 

I am open to a resolution outside of going through the MVDT but I will only give them to the end of the week to give me an answer as to how they want to proceed.

 

 

 

Thanks to all those who have replied, am very grateful.


Batman
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  #3257979 10-Jul-2024 08:10
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Dial111:

 

freitasm: Motor Vehicle Disputes. It's not expensive and quick. We had a problem iwrh a dealer. The problem "disappeared" the day before the hearing.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

I have since drafted an email to the dealer to inform them on what resolution I require and if declined I will lodge a claim with the MVDT for full compensation for repairs or rejecting the vehicle.

 

I have also have included evidence to support my case with links to relevant information online supporting this and photos of the CIN and Sales agreement which show the sale was through the dealer and payment was made directly to the dealer.

 

Should I withhold this information from this email or is there no harm to my case by 'showing my hand' for a lack of better words.

 

I am open to a resolution outside of going through the MVDT but I will only give them to the end of the week to give me an answer as to how they want to proceed.

 

 

 

Thanks to all those who have replied, am very grateful.

 

 

why give them to the end of the week? just tell them I'm doing it and start doing it.


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