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michaelmurfy

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#303918 20-Mar-2023 11:42
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So this actually left me a bit salty. I know other providers also have a 30 day notice period too...

 

My parents were with Voyager for just over 6 years but were paying $89 for VDSL. We're all penny pinching with home loan interest rates on the rise and cost of living going through the roof so I changed them across to another provider who were heaps cheaper after Voyager were refusing to budge on price. My parents don't need all the fancy stuff, they just need something that'll allow them to stream Netflix.

 

Anyway, being both VDSL and rural and on another island to me I wanted to ensure their move went without a hitch. Their new ISP provides a router but also uses port based auth so it is rather easy to swap. I put through a connection request and set it to ASAP (which was about 16 days from when I logged it) but decided to not tell Voyager I was leaving them as I didn't want anyone potentially logging a disconnect order on their line. Once the change happened I then messaged Voyager informing them I had churned the connection and to refund any credit back to my Dads account and got this:

 

Dear Michael,
 
We will be able to close your account on the date you notified us on the 15/03/2023, but I do need to advise you that we do have a 30 day notice period for closing your account with us and you will be billed until the 14/04/2023.
 
We will process the cancellation order for you now based on this time frame.
 
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.
 
Kind regards
Voyager Support Team

 

No "sorry to see you go" or anything like that - just what seems to be a final cash grab. I was actually unaware of their 30 day policy and also wasn't informed of this when we called in an attempt to get a better deal. I flicked them a quick message back:

 

Hi there,

 

We've tried to get this closer to the billing period cut-off. I also know Voyager is not getting charged any wholesale fees as from yesterday so this does seem a little like a cash grab. Had I known I would have deferred the churn notifying you sooner but didn't also want to risk a full disconnect.

 

We'd appreciate it if you just bill for march and nothing past that in that case. 

 

Cheers,
Michael

 

and never actually got a response from this email. I know this is my fault for not checking their 30 day notice period so this is now a warning to everyone else thinking of moving - let them know else they'll charge! It is a bit of a bummer as my parents, like many of us are not in the strongest financial position so the $89 they're billing here for essentially nothing would have been a help for them. Don't get me wrong, Voyager are still a great ISP and I'll still recommend them but this just goes to show that a little bit of loyalty doesn't matter at all to the beancounters.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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ssamjh
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  #3052305 20-Mar-2023 12:36
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I had a similar experience when switching from Voyager. I even had a call from a Voyager telemarketer trying to keep me on their service.





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  #3052307 20-Mar-2023 12:41
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Yeah I got pinged by them as well when moving a few years back, was the only negative thing I could probably say about them. 





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toejam316
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  #3052365 20-Mar-2023 14:27
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It's pretty standard as part of the T&C for most ISPs to require a 30 day notice period for termination. It's a contract being terminated, usually there's extenuating circumstances to allow immediate termination.

 

Myself, I consider the overlap period I pay for during an ISP change to be the "graceful handover" fee. Slingshot has been the only ISP who I've not had this with, and they explicitly chose to waive that for me when I was prematurely cut over.





Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.




SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3052372 20-Mar-2023 14:38
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toejam316:

 

Myself, I consider the overlap period I pay for during an ISP change to be the "graceful handover" fee. Slingshot has been the only ISP who I've not had this with, and they explicitly chose to waive that for me when I was prematurely cut over.

 

 

I had to do a chargeback when HDnet charged me for a termination fee (including an unneeded additional data allowance) I didn't consider they were entitled to. The issue in that case was caused by the wording of their agreement, not complete disregard for it. I personally run two Internet connections in parallel when I switch providers, because I can't afford downtime, so typically I'm paying for an extra month regardless.

 

Voyager did charge me for another month-plus of service when I cancelled my subnet, which I thought was a bit rude. Still, best ISP I've ever used, so I'm not about to go elsewhere in protest.


networkn
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  #3052388 20-Mar-2023 15:24
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We always tell our clients to expect an overlap in costs, which (usually) prevents loss of connectivity. That can range between 7 to 30 days.

 

Same when they move buildings etc. We have had our (their) bacon saved by being able to leave their systems in place on the old connection when something has unexpectedly happened to their new connection.


michaelmurfy

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  #3052394 20-Mar-2023 15:48
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toejam316: It's pretty standard as part of the T&C for most ISPs to require a 30 day notice period for termination. It's a contract being terminated, usually there's extenuating circumstances to allow immediate termination.

 

I said that above too but I've never actually been charged before when changing ISP's - I do normally do a graceful handover.

 

In this case though, there was a period of 16 days from when the churn order was submitted by the new ISP to when I was churned. The losing service provider I thought can also see this. I would have expected perhaps the month of March to be charged for but charging 30 days from disconnect is a little cheeky IMHO.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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cisconz
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  #3052400 20-Mar-2023 15:57
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Most ISP's charge a month in advance on the fixed portion of the bill, so they have already collected some of the 30 days. 





Hmmmm




SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3052403 20-Mar-2023 16:01
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michaelmurfy:

 

In this case though, there was a period of 16 days from when the churn order was submitted by the new ISP to when I was churned. The losing service provider I thought can also see this. I would have expected perhaps the month of March to be charged for but charging 30 days from disconnect is a little cheeky IMHO.

 

 

So really, the question is, is the ISP somehow informed of the churn request, or is this information only available if they go looking for it?

 

If there is notice sent when the request is made, or a daily dump of customer information that contained this information, then I would reasonably consider that to be notice. If not, then the notice would apply from when they were made aware of it, which may be when they lose the connection.


toejam316
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  #3052406 20-Mar-2023 16:06
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From memory, they get notice once the churn has been lodged by the gaining provider. It really depends on if the gaining ISP lodged it in advanced, or a day or two before hand. Best practice is probably only a few days beforehand, to stop any potential shenanigans from occurring. With that said, it's your duty to notify the losing provider, not someone else, you can't go terminate someone else's contract. It can't hurt to escalate the issue and try for a partial refund on the difference of what they were billed for by the LFC/Chorus vs what you paid, but I don't think they have much incentive to take a loss and give you back the full balance, given the services are terminated.





Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.


boosacnoodle
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  #3052409 20-Mar-2023 16:21
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ComCom has hundreds of pages of regulations but never truly looked at this being an issue, despite - I would guess - dozens of occurences mentioned on here. Disappointing, really.


SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3052411 20-Mar-2023 16:25
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toejam316:

 

you can't go terminate someone else's contract.

 

 

It's not a contract termination per se, as contractual obligations must still be met. The churn makes it impossible for the losing ISP to continue to supply services, so the fact that it is happening (or happened) is in itself notice of intent to terminate the service.


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  #3052412 20-Mar-2023 16:33
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

toejam316:

 

you can't go terminate someone else's contract.

 

 

It's not a contract termination per se, as contractual obligations must still be met. The churn makes it impossible for the losing ISP to continue to supply services, so the fact that it is happening (or happened) is in itself notice of intent to terminate the service.

 

 

Consider the possibility that you asked the new ISP to connect you on port 2, but they pushed the wrong button and initiated a churn instead. In that case you haven't authorised the termination of the old ISP's services.


SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3052419 20-Mar-2023 16:45
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Behodar:

 

Consider the possibility that you asked the new ISP to connect you on port 2, but they pushed the wrong button and initiated a churn instead. In that case you haven't authorised the termination of the old ISP's services.

 

 

This was actually a foremost consideration when I wrote my previous responses.

 

If the new ISP puts through the wrong request, the user won't necessarily know until their old connection is terminated and they're left with an urgent mess to clean up. Not only do they need to get their connection connection back online, but the churn may incur extra fees such as early termination charges and payment made in lieu of a notice period. These all take time to fix and may lead to ongoing issues. E.g. a user may be put back on a fixed-term plan, but the end date may reflect the date it was fixed, not the real end of term date, leading to incorrect charges down the track.

 

The losing ISP should receive notice of intent for the churn to occur as soon as possible so they can ensure it does align with the intent of the user, by at a minimum notifying the customer that this is occurring. That gives everyone plenty of opportunity to fix any mistakes long before the churn actually happens.

 

 

 

EDIT: As an aside, something like this did happen to me once. I have two ONTs installed next to each other, which allows me to run to services (multiple ports wasn't an option back when they were installed). When I signed up for Voyager, someone, somewhere, put the request though incorrectly, and the Chorus techs turned up expecting to do a full install. Two ONTs will be fine, thank you.


michaelmurfy

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  #3052437 20-Mar-2023 17:26
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Behodar:

Consider the possibility that you asked the new ISP to connect you on port 2, but they pushed the wrong button and initiated a churn instead. In that case you haven't authorised the termination of the old ISP's services.



I don’t see this as an excuse. I’ve gotten this before from a previous provider but a simple “we have noticed an intent to port to another ISP” email can save this mistake from happening or prevent slamming and also potentially keep a customer.




Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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Mehrts
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  #3052731 21-Mar-2023 10:33
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When switching power companies, the new provider will get in touch with the existing one to let them know that you're moving on. You only have to deal with one party for this process.

Why isn't this process the same with ISPs?





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