Home Assistant - Docker vs Home Assistant OS

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Handle9

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#303502 14-Feb-2023 19:33

I'm currently running home assistant and associated services (Zigbee2MQTT etc) in docker on my Unraid server. It performs well and I've been happy with it.

It seems like the containerised versions of Home assistant lag a bit in development compared to home assistant OS and it's more work to manage than a home assistant OS installation. I'm ok with basic management of dockers but I'm by no means an expert

I've got a Lenovo M92p with a 4th generation core i5, 16GB Ram and an SSD lying around. I'm considering migrating to Home Assistant OS and using this. As a bonus it'll give me the ability to monitor the Unraid server and run backups to the server etc.

Has anyone done something similar or have any feedback on whether or not this is a good idea? Either way it'll be on a UPS and in my network cabinet.

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#3036613 14-Feb-2023 20:02

I considered using dockers for HA on my unraid server but in the end I found it easier to just give HA it’s own VM so it’s all contained. Still runs on unraid and doesn’t use much resources

Chippo

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#3036614 14-Feb-2023 20:02

I made the move a few months ago (In my case I'm running it as a VM in VMware). No regrests, the OS is much more seamless. Especially things like the UPS and Zigbee where the USB passthrough could be unreliable - I've had absolutely no issues since moving to the OS.

Topical for right now - I've since ordered a PoE Home Assistant Yellow which will hopefully arrive some time soon. With my PoE Switch on the same UPS as the Wireless AP and Router that should let the automations continue much longer through a power outage.

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Handle9

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#3036668 14-Feb-2023 20:13

skewt: I considered using dockers for HA on my unraid server but in the end I found it easier to just give HA it’s own VM so it’s all contained. Still runs on unraid and doesn’t use much resources

I't a lowish power Unraid server (10100) so I'm not keen to have a core dedicated to a VM.

Handle9

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#3036671 14-Feb-2023 20:16

Chippo:

I made the move a few months ago (In my case I'm running it as a VM in VMware). No regrests, the OS is much more seamless. Especially things like the UPS and Zigbee where the USB passthrough could be unreliable - I've had absolutely no issues since moving to the OS.

Topical for right now - I've since ordered a PoE Home Assistant Yellow which will hopefully arrive some time soon. With my PoE Switch on the same UPS as the Wireless AP and Router that should let the automations continue much longer through a power outage.

I used to run Home Assistant on pi (3B). I found the performance sluggish compared to a container on Unraid but that may have been down to running off an sd card vs an SSD. It has put me off pi based solutions especially as my zigbee network is a reasonable size (around 30 devices) and I've got another dozen or so integrations.

eluSiveNZ

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#3036674 14-Feb-2023 20:23

Handle9:
It seems like the containerised versions of Home assistant lag a bit in development compared to home assistant OS and it's more work to manage than a home assistant OS installation. I'm ok with basic management of dockers but I'm by no means an expert.

What makes you say there is a lag in development? I thought the updates and releases were the same across all platforms?

Handle9

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#3036677 14-Feb-2023 20:27

eluSiveNZ:
Handle9:

It seems like the containerised versions of Home assistant lag a bit in development compared to home assistant OS and it's more work to manage than a home assistant OS installation. I'm ok with basic management of dockers but I'm by no means an expert.

What makes you say there is a lag in development? I thought the updates and releases were the same across all platforms?

Matter support is one that isn't really supported in containers. You can do it but it's much more difficult than a supported implementation using Home Assistant OS.

You're right saying it's lagging in development isn't strictly true but I think you get what I mean.

skewt

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#3036681 14-Feb-2023 20:37

Handle9:

skewt: I considered using dockers for HA on my unraid server but in the end I found it easier to just give HA it’s own VM so it’s all contained. Still runs on unraid and doesn’t use much resources

I't a lowish power Unraid server (10100) so I'm not keen to have a core dedicated to a VM.

You will be surprised how low usage it can be; I'm running on a lower spec i5-7400, handles VM HA (with zigbee), 10+ dockers, 1x CPU frigate camera + Plex (currently HW trancoding 1x 1080p stream and directplay another 10Mbps)

Only showing 13% CPU usage

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michaelmurfy

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#3036690 14-Feb-2023 20:51

I run Home Assistant OS in a virtual machine on Proxmox. It is currently sitting on the Lenovo M92p host:

You'll be surprised with how much those little machines can run. My main NAS (Pikachu) is a HP Microserver Gen8 running UnRaid with a NFS mount for my Proxmox cluster. The other machines in my Proxmox cluster are of the same age (a Dell Mini with a 4th gen i5, a HP Thin Client as well as a 6th Generation i3 Intel NUC) and I've got plenty of resources to run basically what I want.

For backups, I run Proxmox Backup Manager as a VM on my UnRaid server - this is backed up to Crashplan nightly but storage actually sits on the UnRaid server anyway. I personally think devoting an entire Mini PC just for Home Assistant is a little bit of a waste of resources.

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eluSiveNZ

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#3036691 14-Feb-2023 20:52

Handle9:
Matter support is one that isn't really supported in containers. You can do it but it's much more difficult than a supported implementation using Home Assistant OS.

You're right saying it's lagging in development isn't strictly true but I think you get what I mean.

That’s a good point which I hadn’t actually thought of.
Guess I will follow your outcome in case I need to do the same in the future!

Handle9

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#3036692 14-Feb-2023 20:55

michaelmurfy:

I personally think devoting an entire Mini PC just for Home Assistant is a little bit of a waste of resources.

You're right, it's more that I have it anyway. Virtualising on the m92p to allow other stuff to run is probably a good idea.

boosacnoodle

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#3036694 14-Feb-2023 21:02

Handle9:

Matter support is one that isn't really supported in containers. You can do it but it's much more difficult than a supported implementation using Home Assistant OS.

You're right saying it's lagging in development isn't strictly true but I think you get what I mean.

I don't agree. Matter support is in beta and practically unusable in HA in the current state. Whether you're using HA OS or HA via Docker makes zero difference. In any case, getting started with it in Docker is somewhat support and trivial to set-up, simply run the below command in docker compose:

matter-server:
build:
context: https://github.com/home-assistant-libs/python-matter-server.git#main
dockerfile: Dockerfile.dev
image: matter-server:latest
container_name: homeassistant_matter_server

# Required for mDNS to work correctly
network_mode: host

# Needed for bluetooth via dbus
security_opt:
- apparmor:unconfined

ports:
- "5580:5580"

volumes:
- /var/lib/homeassistant/matter/data:/data/
- /run/dbus:/run/dbus:ro

restart: unless-stopped

michaelmurfy

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#3036696 14-Feb-2023 21:04

For Proxmox there is a helper script that automatically downloads, installs and configures HA OS: https://github.com/tteck/Proxmox/ (see: https://github.com/tteck/Proxmox/blob/main/vm/haos-vm-v5.sh).

michelangelonz

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#3036709 14-Feb-2023 22:36

Ive been running home assistant os for about three years on virtual box with a USB zwave controller passthrough it has been pretty solid.

Handle9

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#3036716 15-Feb-2023 02:58

boosacnoodle:
Handle9:

Matter support is one that isn't really supported in containers. You can do it but it's much more difficult than a supported implementation using Home Assistant OS.

You're right saying it's lagging in development isn't strictly true but I think you get what I mean.

I don't agree. Matter support is in beta and practically unusable in HA in the current state. Whether you're using HA OS or HA via Docker makes zero difference. In any case, getting started with it in Docker is somewhat support and trivial to set-up, simply run the below command in docker compose:

matter-server:
build:
context: https://github.com/home-assistant-libs/python-matter-server.git#main
dockerfile: Dockerfile.dev
image: matter-server:latest
container_name: homeassistant_matter_server

# Required for mDNS to work correctly
network_mode: host

# Needed for bluetooth via dbus
security_opt:
- apparmor:unconfined

ports:
- "5580:5580"

volumes:
- /var/lib/homeassistant/matter/data:/data/
- /run/dbus:/run/dbus:ro

restart: unless-stopped

That was one example. There’s a fair bit more work involved in having everything containerised.

If you consider above trivial to setup we are never going to agree.

timmmay

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#3036736 15-Feb-2023 08:56

Home Assistant Core on a R.Pi4 4GB works well. It's very snappy and uses about 2% of CPU. AppDaemon uses another 3% of CPU, and I have a bunch of other things on there as well.

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