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crazed

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#138038 17-Dec-2013 18:54
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Just wondering how and why these modems that are sold by customers some how seem to link back to your account even after a factory reset? Would also like to know if the TCL netcoms are infact doing that also?




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SATTV
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  #953924 17-Dec-2013 20:16
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I think you are referring to the Vodafone modems.
If you connect a Vodafone ADSL modem to the vodafone network ( irrecpective of what line you are on ) the modem connectsw using standard credentials, then connects to the vodafone radius server and inserts the customers details into that modem, all up it takes about 3 - 5 minutes.
Someone sells that modem on trademe, even though it has been factory reset if someone connects to the Vodafone ADSL network it will log in as the original owner and use their data etc.
I am not sure if you can have more than on login on the vodafone network but if you have a static IP this can cause havoc.
I had a customer whs internet went down, I saw they had a Draytek modem, they are meant to have a vodafone modem on site as a backup. I asked where the backup modem was and one of the staff had taken it home, got them to call home and turn off the modem and we cam on line in a few seconds.
This does not happen to the Netcomm modems as you have to load the credentials manually, TC dont have an automated system like vodafone ( they are still operating seperate networks currently )
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John




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SATTV
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  #953926 17-Dec-2013 20:20
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I forgot to say, if you sell your vodafone modem you need to contact vodafone and get them to deregister it off your account.




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Johnk
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  #953937 17-Dec-2013 20:53
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Is it just me or is it odd this way the voda modems Log on like this?


I'm definitely not an expert, not even slightly skilled in networking let alone at ISP level networking but I just find it odd and see my bill as a connection I'm paying for at my address, not a connection to a modem that could be anywhere?




NonprayingMantis
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  #953940 17-Dec-2013 20:59
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I'm surprised this hasn't been fixed and/or picked up by the media.
It's a known problem and has been happening for a long time. There must be a lot of people having data incorrectly attributed to their account, making them upgrade or spend more than they should. The people who post here and work it out must be the tip of the iceberg. Most people would have no idea and just trust the usage meter blindly, as they did when telecom had issues a couple of years ago with inaccurate usage meters.

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  #953952 17-Dec-2013 21:17
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NonprayingMantis: I'm surprised this hasn't been fixed


I guess that depends on the view you take, and whether anything is actually broken as the modem was designed to be provisioned this way. It's not uncommon to provision devices by MAC address.


NonprayingMantis
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  #953955 17-Dec-2013 21:25
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sbiddle:
NonprayingMantis: I'm surprised this hasn't been fixed


I guess that depends on the view you take, and whether anything is actually broken as the modem was designed to be provisioned this way. It's not uncommon to provision devices by MAC address.



Who else does it?
I've only seen it on Vodafone, at least in these forums, so it seems like other ISPs don't do this. None of the big ones anyway.

Coil
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  #953969 17-Dec-2013 22:23
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We use a system called HDM.  (Something Device manager)
The modems are tracked via serial number and the moment its factory reset it probes our system to grab the PPP credentials relating to that serial, Hence you get someone else PPP in your modem if you get off TM or a mate.

Its the customers responsibility to remove it from their account if sold/given away etc via the my account self service area.

I am sure Telecom have a variant of that. A lot of ISP's just have a quick start CD and rely on customers to follow that or the modems are sent configured for ADSL PPPoA or Port Based auth for VDSL/Fibre how ever so.

(The dreams of port based auth for ADSL, I am sure the call center would be a ghost town.)



hyperman
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  #953975 17-Dec-2013 22:41
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Pritty much any ISP that provides you a M/R will do it this way voda, Xtra, Orcon just to name a few.

Just as bad are CSR's who don't understand how they system works and telling you that you don't need a UN/PW for your store bought solution; thus when it will not connect you need to return it to the store (as it must be faulty) and they will kindly replace your $300 Netgear AC M/R with a POS after signing you onto a 24mth contract!




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crazed

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  #953977 17-Dec-2013 22:47
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Tim, Why aren't customers made aware of this during the sign up process? the reason I ask is I change modems now and then, I don't rely on the ISP modems that often, the netcom(from TCL) I have been using, because its better than my other modem.

I don't have a Vodafone modem at all, infact have never had one, but this is the first ISP I have seen this type of system and I have been with afew ISP's.

If the customer brings a modem from another ISP when they change to vodafone, how do you gain access to the serial number? Also how can it be the customers responsibility if they are not informed to the fact that they need to ring before selling to remove the modem from the account.




CraZeD,
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NonprayingMantis
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  #953982 17-Dec-2013 23:01
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hyperman: Pritty much any ISP that provides you a M/R will do it this way voda, Xtra, Orcon just to name a few.

Just as bad are CSR's who don't understand how they system works and telling you that you don't need a UN/PW for your store bought solution; thus when it will not connect you need to return it to the store (as it must be faulty) and they will kindly replace your $300 Netgear AC M/R with a POS after signing you onto a 24mth contract!


So why do you suppose we have only ever seen threads about this happening with Vodafone modems, and never other ones? Given telecom is the largest ISP I would have expected this to come up much more often, but have never seen a thread about it.

I don't think it would happen with orcon becasuet hey retain ownership of the modem, and you have to use it, you can't use a different modem on orcon.

yitz
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  #953986 17-Dec-2013 23:15
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Yeah I think Vodafone are the only ones who do this, only affects when a Vodafone modem is passed on to another Vodafone customer though. Telecom use port based auth.

It's not MAC address auth, more like some sort of IMEI registration but for ADSL/fixed broadband systems.
Factory restore/intial provisioning would be implemented using TR-069 mechanisms.

crazed

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  #953989 17-Dec-2013 23:35
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TimA: We use a system called HDM.  (Something Device manager)
The modems are tracked via serial number and the moment its factory reset it probes our system to grab the PPP credentials relating to that serial, Hence you get someone else PPP in your modem if you get off TM or a mate.

Its the customers responsibility to remove it from their account if sold/given away etc via the my account self service area.

I am sure Telecom have a variant of that. A lot of ISP's just have a quick start CD and rely on customers to follow that or the modems are sent configured for ADSL PPPoA or Port Based auth for VDSL/Fibre how ever so.

(The dreams of port based auth for ADSL, I am sure the call center would be a ghost town.)


Wouldn't be something similar to a Motive Home Device Manager System would it?

http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/products/motive-home-device-manager




CraZeD,
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hio77
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  #953994 18-Dec-2013 00:47
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TimA: 
(The dreams of port based auth for ADSL, I am sure the call center would be a ghost town.)


doesnt telecom do portbased auth?




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sbiddle
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  #954023 18-Dec-2013 07:18
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hio77:
TimA: 
(The dreams of port based auth for ADSL, I am sure the call center would be a ghost town.)


doesnt telecom do portbased auth?


Yes. I believe Orcon use it for some customers as well. Any ISP who uses Chorus equipment (or their own) can do the same thing, it simply uses the industry standard DHCP option82 inside a DHCP or PPPoE request which contains the ISAM ID and Port #



sbiddle
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  #954024 18-Dec-2013 07:20
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crazed: 

If the customer brings a modem from another ISP when they change to vodafone, how do you gain access to the serial number?


Vodafone can't provision modems they don't supply.


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