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nzkiwiman

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#288882 29-Jul-2021 19:20
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(Mods, please move if not in the correct section)

 

Last year I started realising (again) that my current salary was way below what any salary surveys said I should be earning; I asked and was told not until after March 2021 when the annual salary increase is given. March 2021 rolls around and once again I get the stock standard $500 per year increase.

 

I started working a bit harder on my notes for a salary conversation and in early May had a meeting with the Head of the Department after once again confirming that my immediate manager did not know my salary and had no input. 

 

At this point I should say that I have a base salary and also get two bonus in a year; the bonus is very random and I have no knowledge or control over it - it just appears in my bank account. After almost 10 years in the job, this bonus is actually pretty decent and makes my total income from the job "ok" (but still not great). I have asked multiple times over the years how the bonus is decided and received different answers with the constant "it is not part of your salary"

 

The meeting didn't go that well - going downhill as soon as I mentioned a number, and I was required to submit more information on why I believe I am worth the number and prove it. It took me several months to finish the evidence and submit (with a case of stress leave and a medical issue caused by the stress in the middle slowing things down.

 

Today I had the follow up meeting; my immediate manager was there and now knows my salary, as well as the head of department and his manager. They offered me a value that was less than number I asked for, but more importantly have scrapped the dual bonus system for a single capped bonus at the end of the year. The total "package" is worth less than the income I received in the 2020-2021 calendar year from my salary and the dual bonus. I was told there was an official letter coming "soon" and I left the meeting with my head spinning with questions.

 

While I was at lunch I got sent a word template of the letter (with links to a mail merge values missing), which raised even more questions than it gave as answers and lead me to thinking about getting a lawyer to cast their eye over it. This word template seems to indicate it has been in the planning stages since March 2021 and I have until Monday the 2nd to sign it (even though I don't actually have a signable copy yet). I am currently putting together a bunch of questions to ask ..

 

There are some details I am missing out on purpose (like my role in the company) in order to try and make this a little "anon" but people who might know me will put two and two together.

 

 


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tchart
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  #2751936 29-Jul-2021 19:30
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I wouldn't bother, find another job. They obviously don't value you.

Not sure an employment lawyer would help TBH since they aren't obliged to give you a raise but if they value you then your salary should be increasing every other year at least. Heck even government employees get an annual raise most years. 

Unfortunately it's how things are and sometimes you need to jump ship to get a decent bump.

A further warning sign is if they offer you more money when you resign. This just means they will give you a bump but then the status quo will be back in no time. 




gbwelly
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  #2751937 29-Jul-2021 19:30
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Probably time to pretend everything is fine with your employer (to get them complacent) and start looking for a new job with a fairer salary. Sounds like a dumpster fire of a place to work at. New Zealand is a small place and it's just better to have no reputation for challenging your employer than to win $20,000 and have an agitator mark against you. Yeah it sucks.

 

 

 

 








andrewNZ
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  #2751939 29-Jul-2021 19:35
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Assuming you are worth what you are asking...

You don't need a lawyer, you need a new employer.

If you have to fight this hard to get it, you will have to fight for it every time.

Start looking around and see what there is.



GV27
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  #2751948 29-Jul-2021 19:56
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Check your contract for any enforceable restraint of trade clauses. And then start testing the market. 

 

Covid-aside, someone trying to reduce your remuneration when you asked for a salary review isn't worth an expensive fight over. If they're brazen/dumb enough to try something like that then you're going to have another issue at some point when they overstep again, probably in the very near future.

 

Time at work is time away from family and other stuff, it's too precious to waste working with people who want to act like that. 


scuwp
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  #2751949 29-Jul-2021 19:57
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If they are paying you as per your employment agreement then you don't have a leg to stand on. www.seek.co.nz




Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation



Dratsab
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  #2751956 29-Jul-2021 20:14
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nzkiwiman: Today I had the follow up meeting; <snip> This word template seems to indicate it has been in the planning stages since March 2021 and I have until Monday the 2nd to sign it (even though I don't actually have a signable copy yet).

 

That strikes me as a completely unreasonable time frame, especially if you haven't been given a proper copy of it to read, digest and respond to.

 

There may be some useful information for you here and through other parts of the site.


Inphinity
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  #2751967 29-Jul-2021 20:42
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Walk away. Regardless of any further discussions, this isn't an organisation I'd be prepared to work for, personally.


 
 
 

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Batman
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  #2751968 29-Jul-2021 20:45
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i watched an Elon Musk interview

 

he said he couldn't get a job with any tech companies so he said stuff this i'll start my own company

 

and here we are today


tripp
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  #2752051 29-Jul-2021 22:34
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Had a mate just had this happen a few months ago, she was on salary + overtime, asked for a review they then looked at how much she made last year with overtime, came back with a higher salary but no overtime payments anymore. Yes her base salary went up a bit but with no overtime (which was happening every week) she would be on 5 - 10k less. When she asked about this was told “we did not know you were getting so much overtime and you’re worth the new salary only”. This is also a company where she managed 3 other staff which when they left was never replaced so she was doing the work for 4 people. She left a couple of months ago, longer drives into work but a lot happier.
Sometimes you just have to leave to get the $$ that you are worth.

I will never understand companies that are picky over 5 or 10k increase as it would cost a snot load more than that in recruiting for the role and then having to pay current market rates to the new person and all the knowledge you had is lost and it takes months for new staff to get up to the speed you’re currently at.


Scott3
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  #2752065 29-Jul-2021 23:13
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You employer has no obligation to pay your fair market value, but you have no obligation to continue in the role, and can serve your notice if you are not happy with the deal.

 

Untill you serve your notice, as long as they are paying you as per contract (plus any pay rises they agreed to), everything is fine. no need for a lawyer.

 

 

 

With regards to the letter you, yeah this is something you could have an lawyers opinion on, but I would only expect you to get value from that if you don't understand it on your own. When you received the final copy, simply reject the tight deadline, and advise you will respond once you have had time to consider it and seek advice.

 

Remember that if it changes your contractual terms and you don't like what is proposed, you are not required to sign it at. But if you do, you will be agreeing to what is proposed, so don't sign it if it changes your normal place of work to kawarau or something 


tchart
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  #2752124 30-Jul-2021 06:27
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Lots of good advice in here.

 

IMHO most employers have next to zero loyalty towards employees.

 

I seen first hand how restructures and redundancies play out. I've seen entire offices shut down and everyone let go just "because". Its the sad reality but unfortunately its business.

 

It may not be the case here but some small employers will even see someone with 10 years behind them as a liability in terms of sick leave, redundancy stacking up etc. Rather than fire you they will just make it unbearable for you until you leave.


nzkiwiman

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  #2752142 30-Jul-2021 07:52
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Thanks all; there is some very good advice in here.

 

Last night after working on the finances and figuring out half a dozen other things during a sleepless evening, I have come to the conclusion that I will no longer continue my employment at the company.

 

I don't have anything else lined up and it will be tough to find something again - but I have done it before and I'll probably have to do it again. I will also be seriously financial impacted by this decision.

 

This isn't the first issue I have had with the department and it certainly won't be the last.


Handle9
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  #2752143 30-Jul-2021 07:53
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nzkiwiman:

Thanks all; there is some very good advice in here.


Last night after working on the finances and figuring out half a dozen other things during a sleepless evening, I have come to the conclusion that I will no longer continue my employment at the company.


I don't have anything else lined up and it will be tough to find something again - but I have done it before and I'll probably have to do it again. I will also be seriously financial impacted by this decision.


This isn't the first issue I have had with the department and it certainly won't be the last.



You don't have to resign immediately and you shouldn't. Take your time and fine something else.

Resign when it suits you, not them.

tchart
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  #2752152 30-Jul-2021 08:13
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Handle9:

 

You don't have to resign immediately and you shouldn't. Take your time and fine something else.

Resign when it suits you, not them.

 

+1 dont quit immediately.

 

Find another job first.


nzkc
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  #2752159 30-Jul-2021 08:21
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I agree with others who have said "its time to leave". And clearly you've come to the same conclusion - good luck on the job hunt. As others have said: Dont resign right away. Take your time to find a job - the market is good for employees at the moment.

 

What you might want to consider, and you should consult a lawyer on this, is whether what has happened to you is constructive dismissal: https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/constructive-dismissal/


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