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linus

15 posts

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#290644 24-Nov-2021 23:06
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I've taken over a Bosch solution something-or-other alarm, not sure how to tell the exact model, but the circuit board is a ICP-CC404P. This was installed when the house was built, but the builders / previous owners never used it.

 

I've come as far as resetting the admin and installer codes, but not much else, yet. Shortly after we'd started using it, I came home from a bike ride, went in through the garage, and found out the hard (noisy) way that wife and kids had gone on an excursion, and set the alarm when they left.

 

For convenience, I figure it'd be nice to have the alarm switched off when I open the door remotely. But probably not so great if you can switch off the alarm by pressing the garage door switch on the wall. So, I'm thinking that the solution to this, would be to only switch off the alarm when using the WiFi garage door remote, which is also wired to the garage door opener.

 

The button for the garage door opener just closes a circuit momentarily, and the WiFi remote is connected to the same terminals on the garage door opener, emulating the button, so to speak.

 

In testing, I've come as far as adding a cable to Zone 5 on the alarm, and programmed it as a keyswitch zone, which disarms either stay or away mode. I have confirmed that shorting said cable does indeed disarm the alarm.

 

Next step, I think, would be to run a cable from the alarm system to the garage door WiFi remote, and connecting the two via a diode to the garage door opener, so that when the door is opened using the WiFi remote, the circuit for Z5 is briefly closed, and the alarm disarms. This is the part that I'm unsure of, though :-)

 

I've done a bit of Googling, and not found any other examples of using the keyswitch zones for similar applications. Is this because it's an inherently bad idea, or just because others are less hooked up on automating? If a thief wanted to disable the alarm, it's far easier to just rip it off the wall, or turn off the circuit breaker and disconnect the battery.

 

I'm sure I've missed something in my description, but I've gotta start somewhere, so please ask away :-)


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pih

pih
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  #2818933 24-Nov-2021 23:47
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Sounds sensible enough...


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Deanonzl
37 posts

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  #2818942 25-Nov-2021 04:30
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If you open the garage door via remote during the day when people are inside, it will try to toggle the alarm state.

 

Could cause issues.


Goosey
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  #2818945 25-Nov-2021 06:34
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you should be able to get an expansion board that includes an RF TX/RX point and also if not already an option on the board, you should be able to control a couple I/O's

 

- a suitable matching remote will then allow you to press a button to disable/arm the alarm and then another button for door (which will toggle the I/O output on the alarm panel and send a signal to your door (you somewhat wire the switch to this I/O). 




  #2818962 25-Nov-2021 07:35
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We have our garage doors connected to the alarm in parallel to the wall switches. this allows the alarm to control the doors. we also have a RX/TX expansion for the alarm which allows the alarm to be controlled via a key fob. we have 2 zones, on different buttons, and 2 garage doors also on different buttons.

 

 


gcorgnet
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  #2818963 25-Nov-2021 07:47
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Hi there..

 

This might be more than you are bargaining for here's what you could look into:

- You could use a Konnected interface (sale now on :-) that would let something control the state of the alarm via Wifi (I have on efe these connected to my Bosch Alarm)

 

- Set up Home Assistant (interfaces well with Konnected) to detect when any of the home occupiers are present (via geofencing, or detecting if the phone is connected to the House Wifi, for example)

 

- Both of these things could work together to disable your alaram when you get home from a ride

 

I know it wouldn't be a simple set up (and more complicated than the solution you were considering) but it would have other benefits like potentially being able to arm/disarm and monitor the state of your alarm remotely

 

Hit me up if you would like to hear more details

 

Cheers


Ge0rge
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  #2818977 25-Nov-2021 08:28
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Two issues that spring to mind right away:

1. Are you certain that the Wi-Fi and button work the way you think they do? In my experience with automating garage doors, I haven't come across a system that works as you are describing.

2. How are you going to stop the alarm disarming when you leave the house in your car, and hit the Wi-Fi button to close the door as you drive away?

With a previous Bosch alarm, I had installed the Bosch Wi-Fi unit which allows not only control of the alarm, but control of external relays - connect the relay to the door button and then you can do both turn the alarm off and open the door without risk of other unintended activations.

linus

15 posts

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#2819024 25-Nov-2021 10:23
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pih:

 

Sounds sensible enough...

 

 

What? The first reply agrees with what I'm saying? What are you doing on an internet forum if you're just going to agree with people? 😅

 

Then again, if that was sarcasm, then congratulations. You just won The Internet yesterday.




linus

15 posts

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  #2819028 25-Nov-2021 10:27
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Deanonzl:

 

If you open the garage door via remote during the day when people are inside, it will try to toggle the alarm state.

 

Could cause issues.

 

 

This was my first concern when I first found something about connecting P5 (whatever that is?) as a keyswitch. Then I found that if you options 1 for a zone to 10, it will only disarm, but not arm the alarm. Toggling would, as you suggest, be useless.

 

 

 

From the Bosch installation manual:

 


10 – Momentary Disarm from AWAY Mode, STAY 
Mode 1, or STAY Mode 2 
The system is disarmed from either AWAY Mode, 
STAY Mode 1, or STAY Mode 2 when using the 
momentary keyswitch input. Arming the system is not
permitted from the Keyswitch Zone.


linus

15 posts

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  #2819037 25-Nov-2021 10:45
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Goosey:

 

you should be able to get an expansion board that includes an RF TX/RX point and also if not already an option on the board, you should be able to control a couple I/O's

 

- a suitable matching remote will then allow you to press a button to disable/arm the alarm and then another button for door (which will toggle the I/O output on the alarm panel and send a signal to your door (you somewhat wire the switch to this I/O). 

 

 

 

Jase2985:

 

We have our garage doors connected to the alarm in parallel to the wall switches. this allows the alarm to control the doors. we also have a RX/TX expansion for the alarm which allows the alarm to be controlled via a key fob. we have 2 zones, on different buttons, and 2 garage doors also on different buttons.

 

 

 

This would definitely be worth considering if we start keeping a car in the garage. The garage is currently a holding area, as we've recently moved in, so there's no space for cars :-) I also cycle much more often than I drive, so I prefer just digging my phone out and shouting "Hey Google, open garage", rather than needing to remember to take a remote.


linus

15 posts

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  #2819039 25-Nov-2021 10:49
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gcorgnet:

 

Hi there..

 

This might be more than you are bargaining for here's what you could look into:

- You could use a Konnected interface (sale now on :-) that would let something control the state of the alarm via Wifi (I have on efe these connected to my Bosch Alarm)

 

- Set up Home Assistant (interfaces well with Konnected) to detect when any of the home occupiers are present (via geofencing, or detecting if the phone is connected to the House Wifi, for example)

 

- Both of these things could work together to disable your alaram when you get home from a ride

 

I know it wouldn't be a simple set up (and more complicated than the solution you were considering) but it would have other benefits like potentially being able to arm/disarm and monitor the state of your alarm remotely

 

Hit me up if you would like to hear more details

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

That does seem pretty cool, and yes, I have thought it'd be nice to get the alarm connected and be able to monitor from the phone, eventually... My thought with this was that it's something I could probably hook up in an hour, as wiring access from garage door opener to the alarm is pretty easy.

 

Does one of those interface kits give you everything you need? How much work is it, realistically to get it all up and running? Our system is pretty simple, with 3 PIR sensors, a couple of screamers, and an external strobe that doesn't seem to work.


linus

15 posts

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  #2819048 25-Nov-2021 11:09
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Ge0rge: Two issues that spring to mind right away:

1. Are you certain that the Wi-Fi and button work the way you think they do? In my experience with automating garage doors, I haven't come across a system that works as you are describing.

2. How are you going to stop the alarm disarming when you leave the house in your car, and hit the Wi-Fi button to close the door as you drive away?

With a previous Bosch alarm, I had installed the Bosch Wi-Fi unit which allows not only control of the alarm, but control of external relays - connect the relay to the door button and then you can do both turn the alarm off and open the door without risk of other unintended activations.

 

1. Quite certain :-) The remote I'm using is a Kogan:

 

https://assets.kogan.com/files/usermanuals/KASHWLGRGDA_QSG2.pdf

 

When checking if the door opener would work with this, I did try just shorting the two terminals, and that did indeed trigger the door opening/closing. From what I've read, this seems to be pretty standard, so maybe I didn't explain it right. What's your experience of how they tend to work?

 

2. That's a good point, as I would need to arm the alarm after closing up the garage, and then exit from the front door. This would admittedly be a faff if we start keeping the car in the garage, and I would need a better way of arming the alarm when leaving. Hmm... I'll have to think about this one, and maybe it's back to the drawing board, or go straight for a connected solution like suggested by @gcorgnet. If I wanted to continue down the DIY route, I could pick up another 49 buck garage door remote, wire it up as an "arm away" zone, and set it up so I can say "Hey Google, set the alarm", but that's probably just stupid.


gcorgnet
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  #2819150 25-Nov-2021 12:55
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linus:

 

That does seem pretty cool, and yes, I have thought it'd be nice to get the alarm connected and be able to monitor from the phone, eventually... My thought with this was that it's something I could probably hook up in an hour, as wiring access from garage door opener to the alarm is pretty easy.

 

Does one of those interface kits give you everything you need? How much work is it, realistically to get it all up and running? Our system is pretty simple, with 3 PIR sensors, a couple of screamers, and an external strobe that doesn't seem to work.

 

 


The "Konnected Interface" only lets you control the Alarm over wifi (through their own web interface - not great)

 

For nifty automations, you'd need something else to run Home Assistant (like a raspberry pi or some sort of always on PC or docker container)

 

Definitly quite a bit of work but it is realistic and it will open up the door to other interesting things... (like I never really arm or disarm my alarm, it "just works" based on home presence detecition)


linus

15 posts

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  #2819217 25-Nov-2021 15:11
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gcorgnet:

 

The "Konnected Interface" only lets you control the Alarm over wifi (through their own web interface - not great)

 

For nifty automations, you'd need something else to run Home Assistant (like a raspberry pi or some sort of always on PC or docker container)

 

Definitly quite a bit of work but it is realistic and it will open up the door to other interesting things... (like I never really arm or disarm my alarm, it "just works" based on home presence detecition)

 

 

"Other interesting things" is what I'm scared of, I guess ;-) There's the trade-off between the day-to-day convenience (I do love being able to shout at Google to make it open the garage door), and it becoming a black hole of time that keeps me away from things I'd rather be doing. I also guess I'm currently just putting things off, since I do really want to automate more. It'd be nice to not have to walk around and turn off what seems like a million light switches every night, for example.

 

With the interface, can you still use the alarm as a "regular" alarm? Because the other thing I don't want, is a house that 's so complex that my wife and kids can't handle it without me.


insane
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  #2819219 25-Nov-2021 15:36
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Can't speak for the Bosch, but have a Paradox unit and simply added the IP module to it.

Mobile app (Insight Gold by Swann) lets you control the unit from anywhere with a internet connection, the various preset zone combinations for when you're at home or asleep or out etc including the toggling of up to 15 other device.

Think the board and module together were perhaps ~$650ish. Installation cost more, but your sensors etc are likely fully reusable.I reused one sensor and the power transformer from the old Bosch alarm it replaced.

If you don't want to spend hours and hours tinkering, an upgrade could be an option?

neb

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  #2819221 25-Nov-2021 15:41
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One comment on this, depending on which end is the tail and which is the dog, you generally don't want a garage-door remote being the dog because the security on many of those is close to nonexistent, cheap Princeton 2262 encoders that can be trivially defeated, which means anyone who can toggle your garage door can also turn off your alarm.

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