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Eva888

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#303857 15-Mar-2023 09:17
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Have a 4 plug individually switched power board in the kitchen with a reset button on the side. The toaster is plugged into it as well as a landline and a clock radio, so not much drain and I don’t pull the plugs in and out, they just live there constantly. Toaster works fine every morning.

Turned on toaster and it stopped after a few seconds. All power board lights are off. I checked the main fuses downstairs, all fine. So then thought to reset the power board and board came back to life. Put the toaster on again and it blew a second time so now I’m nervous and unplug the toaster. Then I reset the power board and radio and phone are working continually and all the 4 power board lights are on again. Plugged something else into the one vacated by toaster...working.

I then plugged the toaster which is barely a year old into a wall plug on another circuit and it toasted without blowing.

My question is do I need a new power board even though it appears to be working or is it possible the toaster is causing the issue.

Just shook all crumbs out of the toaster in case somehow it can be causing a short circuit. One big piece of toast the size of a dollar coin dropped out, could this be the cause?

Advice please as unsure what to do next.




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outdoorsnz
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  #3050272 15-Mar-2023 09:38
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I'd say your toaster is toasted! The wall socket will have a higher fuse cutout possibly.

 

If after clearing all blockages and still popping the power board over load, safer to get a new toaster. Wouldn't hurt to replace power board ether if quite old.

 

 


 
 
 

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k1w1k1d
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  #3050278 15-Mar-2023 09:47
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My guess is the cheap power board. The toaster is probably about 2KW/10A which is near the limit of the circuit breaker on the board. After a while the breakers get "tired" and trip at a lower current.

 

To confirm this, try a fan heater or kettle etc to see if it trips with that.


Eva888

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  #3050281 15-Mar-2023 10:16
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k1w1k1d:

My guess is the cheap power board. The toaster is probably about 2KW/10A which is near the limit of the circuit breaker on the board. After a while the breakers get "tired" and trip at a lower current.


To confirm this, try a fan heater or kettle etc to see if it trips with that.



Thanks! Tried the jug and sure enough it tripped off after about 20 seconds so it is the power board.

So new power board it is. Any suggestions for what to look for that has surge protection and separate switches preferably black colour and that can take the load of a toaster?






johno1234
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  #3050283 15-Mar-2023 10:21
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How far away is the wall socket and is it a double socket? It would be preferable to plug the toaster into the wall directly, not the powerboard, for the reasons mentioned above.


Mehrts
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  #3050300 15-Mar-2023 11:05
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Using high current devices (toasters, jugs etc) is a bad idea with power boards. Plug it directly into the wall socket.

Power/multi boards are best used for many low power devices (chargers, computer monitors, TV's and their peripherals etc).





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Eva888

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  #3050317 15-Mar-2023 11:48
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It is a double plug on the wall, one has the jug and the other below runs the power board which I need there. Old house badly planned electrics and Lockwood which makes it harder to add more plugs.

I did change something yesterday which may have triggered this. The toaster used to be plugged into a double adaptor which was in the wall outlet. So I used to run the jug, toaster and power board from the wall plug. Yesterday I put the toaster into the spare power board space.

If I use both for the jug and toaster I can’t run a power board.

Would there be a heavier duty power board I can buy to take the toaster and what specs would it need to be. Thanks.

hsvhel
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  #3050325 15-Mar-2023 12:12
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Not really.  An approach to this would be to unplug when done with the Jug/Toaster and get into the habbit of a direct connection.

 

Neither are great appliances to have on a multi board.





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richms
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  #3050329 15-Mar-2023 12:22
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Eva888: It is a double plug on the wall, one has the jug and the other below runs the power board which I need there. Old house badly planned electrics and Lockwood which makes it harder to add more plugs.

I did change something yesterday which may have triggered this. The toaster used to be plugged into a double adaptor which was in the wall outlet. So I used to run the jug, toaster and power board from the wall plug. Yesterday I put the toaster into the spare power board space.

If I use both for the jug and toaster I can’t run a power board.

Would there be a heavier duty power board I can buy to take the toaster and what specs would it need to be. Thanks.

 

No as they are limited to a 10A input, so have to have a 10A overcurrent protection in them. You can find metal heavy duty ones for building sites etc, but they seem to use a similar over current protection device which is going to be made to error on the side of safety and are only really better in being bashed around rather than the quality.

 

If you go cheap and get click/elto/etc branded stuff that costs less than a coffee, then you really get what you pay for with them.

 

A 4 slice toaster is getting close to the max a power outlet can deliver when all slots are on. A kettle is the maximum. 

 

Powerstrips are not made to run large loads so you are constantly heating the overcurrent protection up as you load it to the maximum, over time the spring weakens from the heat, the plastic will soften and things move in it. That makes them trip at lower currents. If you are buying powerstrips then treat them as a consumable and just throw them out once you notice anything wrong with them.





Richard rich.ms

Eva888

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  #3050387 15-Mar-2023 12:39
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Could an electrician add a face fixed double plug next to the wall plug using power from the original plug? It’s Lockwood so where it’s situated he can’t draw wires from the switch board. I would be concerned that there are a lot of other things running on that same circuit along the same wall.

I have been buying Belkin power boards with surge protection for other situations. The one in question also was not a cheap flimsy one.

richms
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  #3050390 15-Mar-2023 12:46
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Yes, you can run surface cabling in the house from the existing one to new ones, but depending on the age of the breaker board they may need to replace things on there which can start to get really expensive.

 

The other option is to swap the single or double wall outlet for a 4 or 5 way one.





Richard rich.ms

Eva888

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  #3050431 15-Mar-2023 14:33
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richms:

Yes, you can run surface cabling in the house from the existing one to new ones, but depending on the age of the breaker board they may need to replace things on there which can start to get really expensive.


The other option is to swap the single or double wall outlet for a 4 or 5 way one.



Thanks. I didn’t know you could have 4 or 5 way outlets all in one. Wonder if they have surface mounted ones though as the hole in the wood wall is behind the plug and small. I like this idea.

  #3050433 15-Mar-2023 14:53
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Yup, quad outlets are the preferred option for this. Readily available in black. Both legrand and PDL Iconic seem to be only producing horizontal versions, so if you need vertical, you'll need to go with the 600 series - might match better with existing anyway.

 

https://eref.se.com/au/en/pdl/product-pdf/PDL395H4C-XB

 

https://eref.se.com/au/en/pdl/product-pdf/PDL641BK

 

Amusingly, both double and quad outlets are generally only rated for a total combined load of the highest-rated socket, so still only 10A in this case... but unlike a 10A power board, have no protection enforcing this. I have no idea why this is legal but *shrugs*. It's not actually going to have any impact on loading and there aren't the sustained 20min+ loads that tend to cause failure. They used to make /15 versions that had 3x10A sockets and 1x15A socket, but these appear to be discontinued.

 

Looks like the newer iconic line doesn't include a quad vertical; the old 641s should still be available and might better match existing anyway.

 

Yes, they can be surface mounted, but the normal method of mounting them only requires a small recess in the centre similar to a standard double plug - drilling out the recess to be larger is also possible.

 

Mounting an additional double outlet (preferably surface) immediately next to the existing one should also be easy.

 

 


k1w1k1d
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  #3050518 15-Mar-2023 16:05
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We replaced the double outlet in our laundry with a vertical PDL 600 quad. It fitted straight into the same cut-out.

 

 It has the washer and dryer plugged in all the time. Don't have to remove either to use the iron or vacuum etc. so no chance of a plug dropping in the tub of water. 

 

Just have to remember not to run too much at once.


Eva888

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  #3050520 15-Mar-2023 16:21
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Thanks @SomeoneSomewhere that looks great and a perfect solution but as you say if they have no protection the only gain over a power board is that it would be fitted permanently. However this idea is great for a few other situations here that are bereft of enough plugs. Will be great in the laundry also.

Am annoyed that our electrician knowing the problems here has never suggested quads and only ever fitted doubles over the singles. Thanks all.

richms
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  #3050529 15-Mar-2023 16:34
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Eva888: Am annoyed that our electrician knowing the problems here has never suggested quads and only ever fitted doubles over the singles. Thanks all.

 

Probably not in stock in the van and not wanting to go to the wholesaler for one and have to bill the time to you.





Richard rich.ms

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