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thewanderingv

185 posts

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#196747 11-Jun-2016 09:20
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After what has been an awful setup experience (which you can follow on the general UFB forum), I called yesterday to cancel my Orcon service under the fibre guarantee. What ensued in my phone call with the support line can described at best as a sham, and at worst as a scam.

 

The support person repeatedly told me that there is no such thing as a fibre guarantee, and as I was connected on April 19th (the day I signed up but wasn't connected), I would have to pay the termination fee. When I clarified that I was only connected two days ago, the support person still maintained that the termination fee applied, and that I would have to pay it to cancel. 

 

When I told her that my contract explicitly had a cooling off clause in the fibre guarantee, she said that she had never heard of it, and that if she hadn't heard of it, I would have to pay the fee. 

 

I asked to talk to her manager to help clear the situation out, but was then put on hold for over an hour, with the support person coming back a few times to tell me that the manager "was on another line and couldn't get to me". She asked instead for me to mail my "signed contract" which showed the cooling off clause, as that was the only way she could waive my fee. I declined and again insisted on talking to the manager. I was again put on hold, and again told that the manager couldn't attend to me as she was too busy doing something else.

 

Finally, I asked the support person to open up a web page, and guided her to the terms and conditions page where the fibre guarantee is detailed. She said, "oh yes, interesting", but then said that she couldn't do anything about it. She said that she would cancel my account, and that someone else would get back to me about the fee, but that I might be charged for it. I insisted on the support person sending me an email documenting our conversation, which she said she would, but surprise surprise, nothing showed up. 

 

Orcon: you have been an awful, awful company to deal with through my Chorus installation problems. Every follow-up you promised to make never happened, requiring me to painstakingly pursue the installation myself. Up to the very final step, when you promised that everything had been set up on your end, it turned out that my account had not been provisioned leading to further delays even after Chorus had done its job.

 

Now, I cannot cancel my service under the guarantee without dealing with your support team, who are not well trained nor interested in giving the customer any benefit of the doubt. 

 

I cannot imagine how anyone would want to retain service with a firm that cannot deliver on even the most basic principles of customer-centric service.

 

 

 

Now, back to calling Orcon to try and waive my termination fee... 

 

 


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xpd

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  #1570822 13-Jun-2016 08:44
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If they've charged you for a period that they know you were not able to be online, then its a failure for them to complete their end of the contract , and yes, you should be able to cancel without any fees. It may just be though that you were talking to a standard accounts person who just sees that you joined on x date and you want to cancel, dosent actually look into if you were actually connected on that date or not...... 

 

 





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evnafets
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  #1570833 13-Jun-2016 09:10
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You are referring to https://www.orcon.net.nz/about/terms/category/fibre ? 

 

Fibre Guarantee

 

29. All Orcon Fibre plans come with the "Fibre Guarantee" which states that customers who are not happy with their Fibre connection 30-60 days post service activation can waive their early termination fee. If customers are not happy with their Orcon Fibre plan and wish to get their ETF waved then they must (1) contact Orcon within 30-60 after the Fibre connection has been activated at their property and (2) with a legitimate reason on why they are unhappy with the Orcon Fibre connection at their house. Any complaints outside of this timeframe will void the fibre guarantee. Only standard early termination fees will be waived, no additional charges, fees or service charges will be waived under any circumstances. Fibre guarantee valid for new Orcon customers only. 

 

 

 

 


sidefx
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  #1570834 13-Jun-2016 09:10
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What is this Fibre Guarantee? Sorry, not a term I've come across so I'm genuinely interested.

 

 

 

EDIT:  Ah, I see, cross post so it's linked above!  Interesting, good to know :)





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sbiddle
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  #1570845 13-Jun-2016 09:40
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Out of curiosity what are your reasons for wanting to cancel? To me it's a guarantee about the actual fibre service, not any issues with the install so if your gripe is with that I'm not quite sure how you'd actually qualify for it.

 

 


dolsen
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  #1570849 13-Jun-2016 09:46
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evnafets:

 

You are referring to https://www.orcon.net.nz/about/terms/category/fibre ? 

 

Fibre Guarantee

 

29. All Orcon Fibre plans come with the "Fibre Guarantee" which states that customers who are not happy with their Fibre connection 30-60 days post service activation can waive their early termination fee. If customers are not happy with their Orcon Fibre plan and wish to get their ETF waved then they must (1) contact Orcon within 30-60 after the Fibre connection has been activated at their property and (2) with a legitimate reason on why they are unhappy with the Orcon Fibre connection at their house. Any complaints outside of this timeframe will void the fibre guarantee. Only standard early termination fees will be waived, no additional charges, fees or service charges will be waived under any circumstances. Fibre guarantee valid for new Orcon customers only. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My reading of that suggests that you need to wait 30 (but not more than 60) days post activation before you can invoke it. I'm not a lawyer and, more importantly, I haven't' had my coffee yet so I could be wrong.

 

 


timmmay
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  #1570851 13-Jun-2016 09:54
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"Within 30-60 days after the fiber connection has been activated", to me, says between 0 and 60 days after activation. "Between 30 and 60 days after activation" would mean 30 - 60 days, but that's not what they said.


bameron
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  #1570854 13-Jun-2016 09:59
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thewanderingv:

 

After what has been an awful setup experience (which you can follow on the general UFB forum), I called yesterday to cancel my Orcon service under the fibre guarantee. What ensued in my phone call with the support line can described at best as a sham, and at worst as a scam.

 

The support person repeatedly told me that there is no such thing as a fibre guarantee, and as I was connected on April 19th (the day I signed up but wasn't connected), I would have to pay the termination fee. When I clarified that I was only connected two days ago, the support person still maintained that the termination fee applied, and that I would have to pay it to cancel. 

 

When I told her that my contract explicitly had a cooling off clause in the fibre guarantee, she said that she had never heard of it, and that if she hadn't heard of it, I would have to pay the fee. 

 

I asked to talk to her manager to help clear the situation out, but was then put on hold for over an hour, with the support person coming back a few times to tell me that the manager "was on another line and couldn't get to me". She asked instead for me to mail my "signed contract" which showed the cooling off clause, as that was the only way she could waive my fee. I declined and again insisted on talking to the manager. I was again put on hold, and again told that the manager couldn't attend to me as she was too busy doing something else.

 

Finally, I asked the support person to open up a web page, and guided her to the terms and conditions page where the fibre guarantee is detailed. She said, "oh yes, interesting", but then said that she couldn't do anything about it. She said that she would cancel my account, and that someone else would get back to me about the fee, but that I might be charged for it. I insisted on the support person sending me an email documenting our conversation, which she said she would, but surprise surprise, nothing showed up. 

 

Orcon: you have been an awful, awful company to deal with through my Chorus installation problems. Every follow-up you promised to make never happened, requiring me to painstakingly pursue the installation myself. Up to the very final step, when you promised that everything had been set up on your end, it turned out that my account had not been provisioned leading to further delays even after Chorus had done its job.

 

Now, I cannot cancel my service under the guarantee without dealing with your support team, who are not well trained nor interested in giving the customer any benefit of the doubt. 

 

I cannot imagine how anyone would want to retain service with a firm that cannot deliver on even the most basic principles of customer-centric service.

 

 

 

Now, back to calling Orcon to try and waive my termination fee...

 

 

Hi there,

 

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by your fibre install process. Depending on the situation the process can be frustrating enough by itself, it sounds like we didn't help the situation by not following up with you as promised.

 

PM me with your account details and I'll get this looked at and see what we can do - but as has already been pointed out the fibre guarantee relates to service issues post-activation, so anything related to your install won't qualify.

 

I'll also send your feedback through to the team as they definitely should have been aware of the guarantee.

 

Cheers,

 

Cam




dolsen
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  #1570857 13-Jun-2016 10:06
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timmmay:

 

"Within 30-60 days after the fiber connection has been activated", to me, says between 0 and 60 days after activation. "Between 30 and 60 days after activation" would mean 30 - 60 days, but that's not what they said.

 

 

 

 

It's more the "who are not happy with their Fibre connection 30-60 days post service activation" that drove that interpretation.


sidefx
3648 posts

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  #1570863 13-Jun-2016 10:21
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timmmay:

 

"Within 30-60 days after the fiber connection has been activated", to me, says between 0 and 60 days after activation. "Between 30 and 60 days after activation" would mean 30 - 60 days, but that's not what they said.

 

 

 

 

One wonders why they even mentioned 30 days if this is what it means though. 





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              - Richard Feynman


NonprayingMantis
6434 posts

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  #1570877 13-Jun-2016 10:43
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bameron:

 

thewanderingv:

 

After what has been an awful setup experience (which you can follow on the general UFB forum), I called yesterday to cancel my Orcon service under the fibre guarantee. What ensued in my phone call with the support line can described at best as a sham, and at worst as a scam.

 

The support person repeatedly told me that there is no such thing as a fibre guarantee, and as I was connected on April 19th (the day I signed up but wasn't connected), I would have to pay the termination fee. When I clarified that I was only connected two days ago, the support person still maintained that the termination fee applied, and that I would have to pay it to cancel. 

 

When I told her that my contract explicitly had a cooling off clause in the fibre guarantee, she said that she had never heard of it, and that if she hadn't heard of it, I would have to pay the fee. 

 

I asked to talk to her manager to help clear the situation out, but was then put on hold for over an hour, with the support person coming back a few times to tell me that the manager "was on another line and couldn't get to me". She asked instead for me to mail my "signed contract" which showed the cooling off clause, as that was the only way she could waive my fee. I declined and again insisted on talking to the manager. I was again put on hold, and again told that the manager couldn't attend to me as she was too busy doing something else.

 

Finally, I asked the support person to open up a web page, and guided her to the terms and conditions page where the fibre guarantee is detailed. She said, "oh yes, interesting", but then said that she couldn't do anything about it. She said that she would cancel my account, and that someone else would get back to me about the fee, but that I might be charged for it. I insisted on the support person sending me an email documenting our conversation, which she said she would, but surprise surprise, nothing showed up. 

 

Orcon: you have been an awful, awful company to deal with through my Chorus installation problems. Every follow-up you promised to make never happened, requiring me to painstakingly pursue the installation myself. Up to the very final step, when you promised that everything had been set up on your end, it turned out that my account had not been provisioned leading to further delays even after Chorus had done its job.

 

Now, I cannot cancel my service under the guarantee without dealing with your support team, who are not well trained nor interested in giving the customer any benefit of the doubt. 

 

I cannot imagine how anyone would want to retain service with a firm that cannot deliver on even the most basic principles of customer-centric service.

 

 

 

Now, back to calling Orcon to try and waive my termination fee...

 

 

Hi there,

 

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by your fibre install process. Depending on the situation the process can be frustrating enough by itself, it sounds like we didn't help the situation by not following up with you as promised.

 

PM me with your account details and I'll get this looked at and see what we can do - but as has already been pointed out the fibre guarantee relates to service issues post-activation, so anything related to your install won't qualify.

 

I'll also send your feedback through to the team as they definitely should have been aware of the guarantee.

 

Cheers,

 

Cam

 

 

 

 

wow,  so they have to have a 'legitimate reason' to not be happy?

 

If you're not happy you can leave, but guess who decides what counts as a legitimate reason?  

 

Apparently Orcon get to decide!

 

Thats a pretty terrible guarantee IMHO.


JamesL
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  #1570878 13-Jun-2016 10:43
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Should have listened to the advice given in the other thread and not gone with Orcon :/

 

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=49&TopicId=195453#1543554

 

 


allio
867 posts

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  #1570903 13-Jun-2016 11:21
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I had a similar experience about 8 years ago with Orcon, though obviously that was ADSL not fibre. When I signed up I asked for and received a no-contract term in exchange for getting no free modem and having to pay my connection fee. I was pretty pleased with my decision when the performance turned out to be worse than the ISP I'd left, so I called up to cancel after a month. That led to about five different conversations where CSR after CSR assured me that it was impossible for me to have received a no-contract term and I would absolutely definitely have to pay the $250 early termination fee, no doubt about it. When I asked why I'd been charged a connection fee when the contract offer explicitly waived it, there was no answer.

 

Eventually they sent me a letter advising me they were sending my account to Baycorp. I made one last desperate phone call, and I had the amazing fortune of somebody I knew answering the phone on the helpdesk. They quietly made the problem disappear, and I've thankfully had nothing to do with this terrible ISP ever since.

 

I have read of other people having nearly identical experiences on at least one occasion. That, and stories like this one, means that I don't think this is an accident - I think Orcon staff are actually trained to insist on charging this disconnection fee no matter what. I'm sorry if that's not the case but it's certainly the impression I was left with. I couldn't believe how rude and unhelpful the people I dealt with were. Is it really worth charging a fee in cases like this one (where cause for cancellation clearly exists) and pissing off your customers, who quite rightly take to the internet to complain?


kingjj
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  #1570904 13-Jun-2016 11:23
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NonprayingMantis:

 

bameron:

 

thewanderingv:

 

After what has been an awful setup experience (which you can follow on the general UFB forum), I called yesterday to cancel my Orcon service under the fibre guarantee. What ensued in my phone call with the support line can described at best as a sham, and at worst as a scam.

 

The support person repeatedly told me that there is no such thing as a fibre guarantee, and as I was connected on April 19th (the day I signed up but wasn't connected), I would have to pay the termination fee. When I clarified that I was only connected two days ago, the support person still maintained that the termination fee applied, and that I would have to pay it to cancel. 

 

When I told her that my contract explicitly had a cooling off clause in the fibre guarantee, she said that she had never heard of it, and that if she hadn't heard of it, I would have to pay the fee. 

 

I asked to talk to her manager to help clear the situation out, but was then put on hold for over an hour, with the support person coming back a few times to tell me that the manager "was on another line and couldn't get to me". She asked instead for me to mail my "signed contract" which showed the cooling off clause, as that was the only way she could waive my fee. I declined and again insisted on talking to the manager. I was again put on hold, and again told that the manager couldn't attend to me as she was too busy doing something else.

 

Finally, I asked the support person to open up a web page, and guided her to the terms and conditions page where the fibre guarantee is detailed. She said, "oh yes, interesting", but then said that she couldn't do anything about it. She said that she would cancel my account, and that someone else would get back to me about the fee, but that I might be charged for it. I insisted on the support person sending me an email documenting our conversation, which she said she would, but surprise surprise, nothing showed up. 

 

Orcon: you have been an awful, awful company to deal with through my Chorus installation problems. Every follow-up you promised to make never happened, requiring me to painstakingly pursue the installation myself. Up to the very final step, when you promised that everything had been set up on your end, it turned out that my account had not been provisioned leading to further delays even after Chorus had done its job.

 

Now, I cannot cancel my service under the guarantee without dealing with your support team, who are not well trained nor interested in giving the customer any benefit of the doubt. 

 

I cannot imagine how anyone would want to retain service with a firm that cannot deliver on even the most basic principles of customer-centric service.

 

 

 

Now, back to calling Orcon to try and waive my termination fee...

 

 

Hi there,

 

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by your fibre install process. Depending on the situation the process can be frustrating enough by itself, it sounds like we didn't help the situation by not following up with you as promised.

 

PM me with your account details and I'll get this looked at and see what we can do - but as has already been pointed out the fibre guarantee relates to service issues post-activation, so anything related to your install won't qualify.

 

I'll also send your feedback through to the team as they definitely should have been aware of the guarantee.

 

Cheers,

 

Cam

 

 

 

 

wow,  so they have to have a 'legitimate reason' to not be happy?

 

If you're not happy you can leave, but guess who decides what counts as a legitimate reason?  

 

Apparently Orcon get to decide!

 

Thats a pretty terrible guarantee IMHO.

 

 

Personally I see 'legitimate' as a good word to include. It stops those who want out of their contract because they saw a better deal; wanted to install for a later time; are time wasters; and those that don't understand the technology or think they Orcon should support their personal kit under their guarantee. I'm sure if there is any disagreement it could be escalated or eventually taken to the TDR/disputes tribunal. Having an opened ended 'you can cancel without a reason' clause would be a nightmare.


sbiddle
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  #1570917 13-Jun-2016 11:26
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NonprayingMantis: 

 

wow,  so they have to have a 'legitimate reason' to not be happy?

 

If you're not happy you can leave, but guess who decides what counts as a legitimate reason?  

 

Apparently Orcon get to decide!

 

Thats a pretty terrible guarantee IMHO.

 

 

Without knowing the full details it's impossible to know whether the install process (which seems to be the issue here) would have been any better had the OP chosen another RSP.

 

 


allio
867 posts

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  #1570921 13-Jun-2016 11:34
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sbiddle:

 

Without knowing the full details it's impossible to know whether the install process (which seems to be the issue here) would have been any better had the OP chosen another RSP.

 

 

 

Orcon: you have been an awful, awful company to deal with through my Chorus installation problems. Every follow-up you promised to make never happened, requiring me to painstakingly pursue the installation myself. Up to the very final step, when you promised that everything had been set up on your end, it turned out that my account had not been provisioned leading to further delays even after Chorus had done its job.

 

I reckon this is a legitimate reason to be unhappy with his fibre connection. Why would he want to remain connected with an ISP which has been useless to deal with for months? Why should he have any confidence that problems in the future are going to be resolved without further headaches and dramas? The wording of the guarantee doesn't specify that only technical reasons are "legitimate". Internet service is more than just speed and latency.


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