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miked

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#171869 4-May-2015 00:49
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I'm looking for a router that will handle our new 200Mbs / 100Mbs fibre connection at work.

I had been comparing the Mikrotik  RB951G-2HnD  vs  RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN ..... however, I just discovered Mikrotik's  CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN which sounds like it is worth the small premium over the RB2011 for the extra switch features and the extra 3 Gigabit ports.

The main question is whether any of these devices are actually up the task of routing a 200Mbs down /100Mbs up UFB connection? And also futureproofed if that rises further?  (our ISP will already allow us to get 200Mbs down / 200Mbs up, and no doubt those numbers will only climb in time!).

I know the CRS109 is primarily a switch with router functions built-in. But it has the same CPU as the RB2011 which is a router, and has less switching capability. So general research suggest that even for routing the CRS109 is the better unit of the two (apart from a few fringe scenarios). That said, it is noted by people that for fast UFB connections the CPU in all of them is possibly a limiting factor, as they run wire-speed when switching in hardware, but are CPU bound when doing routing, and the CPU isn't as fast as it could be. Therefore, the ideal Mikrotik platform for routing is the CCR series instead, but that is out of our price league as a small charity! Do Mikrotik have anything cheaper than the CCR series, that might be a better fit?

My suspicion is that I should probably just buy a CRS109-8G-1S-2HnD-IN as main switch/router for our office (in preference over the other two Mikrotik's mentioned), and that the routing speed won't be an issue for us at all... but before I commit, wanting to check if there are there other brands in the same price point that have a better device I should consider?

Seen very good comments about the routing abilities of the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite, but that is maybe only $60 less the CRS109 but with only 3 ports available, and no wireless.... so I'd still need a good switch and good wireless to achieve desire goals (see below).


Desired Setup (assume 8 ports available):
1x WAN to ONT.
4x Gigabit ports for LACP teaming (2 HP servers each with 2 Gigabit ports). 
That leaves me 3 ports for connecting out to other infrastructure (various 10/100 unmanaged switches currently - but bound to be at least one 10/100/1000 in due course).
Rock Solid Wireless
External VPN clients to Router available
VLAN


Thoughts...and opinions?

Mike


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sbiddle
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  #1297396 4-May-2015 08:18
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Get a RB850Gx2

It's a dual core CPU so is far more powerful than the 951, 2011 or low end CCS products which are all single core.

Most of the mid range products such as the 2011 are all being replaced by dual core CPU based products over the coming months as it's so much quicker.



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chevrolux
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  #1297816 4-May-2015 17:55
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We use Rb2011 for all of our customers but never provision a connection over 100Mbps (no one has needed more than that, we deal with only SMB's).

On a 100/50, pppoe connection the CPU sits at around 80% when the connection is fully utilized. So I wouldnt want to use a 2011 for a 200/100 even if it was delivered using IPoE instead or PPPoE.

I think I would probably go for the baby CCR (not CRS) or a RB1100. I wasn't aware of the rb850 but looks pretty good too.

Forget about the ubnt edgerouter - mikrotik's software walks all over them.

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  #1297840 4-May-2015 18:21
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I'd pick the 850G is probably 4x the power of the single core CPU and those used in the 2011. It's not hard to bog down a 2011 especially if you have lots of firewall rules.




miked

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  #1298293 5-May-2015 12:23
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Are the switch and wireless components in the CRS109 unit good anyway? I did read somewhere they can be overclocked to 700Mhz (or even 750Mhz) from the default 600Mhz which apparently can help.

I'm wondering about buying the CRS109 unit anyway, and then only upgrading the routing part if needed at a later date?

My rationale is that if I went for the RB850G now, then I would still need to get a new wireless device (our existing one has recently started playing up), and also get a good gigabit switch anyway. My thinking was that those two elements could easily equal the price of the CRS109 unit anyway, and so if I buy that CRS first, then I get to try it out and see if its routing abilities are good enough in the real world.

One crucial question though that hopefully someone might know the answer to, is LACP teaming on the CRS109 a cpu or switch function? As I understand it, it might be a cpu function, and therefore not too efficent at all - therefore possibly defeating the point of teaming in the first place due to throughput being severely cpu limited. Is that correct? If so, then that pretty much nullifies the reason for buying the CRS109 now! I'd be better off buying a simple managed gigabit switch with high throughput. Maybe something like this?
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=SWHHPC2437210&name=HP-J9833A-PS1810-8G-Gigabit-Layer-2-managed-switch

(would get even better mileage out of that HP switch if we had G8 servers, but should still team my pair of G6 servers OK).

Of course, the other option is to try to get by with the existing router until the RB2011 or CRS109 are given a processor update in the coming months (although my understanding is that release dates often slip, by up-to-6months from target delivery!).

Our existing RVL200 is a 10/100 device, so will definitely NOT make use the 200Mbit down, but if it can saturate 100/100Mbit (or close to it), then it might get us by whilst we wait to see what happens in the market place.

We are jumping up from 15mbit/2Mbit cable connection anyway, so we should see a nice leap in performance either way! We actually ordered 100/50Mbit connection last year, but by the time Chorus actually got it installed, Inspire (our ISP) was offering 200/100Mbit as the entry level business product for the same price anyway!


Mike

miked

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  #1329623 22-Jun-2015 23:50
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sbiddle: Get a RB850Gx2

It's a dual core CPU so is far more powerful than the 951, 2011 or low end CCS products which are all single core.

Most of the mid range products such as the 2011 are all being replaced by dual core CPU based products over the coming months as it's so much quicker.




sbiddle

Is there a thread you have seen this mentioned in (discussing dual core upgrades to RB2011 & CRS109 etc)?

I would like to be kept updated with developments on updated processor releases for suitable Routerboard devices.

Due to provisioning speed issues on our fibre connection (temporarily stuck at 100/50 currently), there was no need to upgrade the existing Cisco RVL200 yet... so I have a possible chance to get a better dual core cpu router if one is released in time (by the time Chorus get round to fixing the speed of our connection).

Thanks

Mike

michaelmurfy
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  #1329670 23-Jun-2015 08:34
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Focus more on a router and not an all in one unit.

If it is an office environment either go with an Ubiquiti EdgeRouter or a RB850Gx2 then team this up with an Ubiquiti UniFi Pro or AC. Sure it'll cost a little more but you're getting a really good access point in the process for solid WiFi.

I am pretty sure that the AIO solutions from Mikrotik only have 802.11N over 2.4GHz unless if you build one yourself.




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miked

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  #1334536 1-Jul-2015 00:54
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Thanks. Useful advice.

I'm still waiting for Chorus to re-provision the connection onto the correct speed. Until then I can stick with current router.

Why do Chorus take so long....

Still hoping something new arrives before I need to buy... have to wait and see.

Mike



lucky015
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  #1334540 1-Jul-2015 01:22
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I'm sitting here waiting for UFB to come round to my area currently however from what I have seen and read I will be going the Ubiquiti route myself when it does.

miked

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  #1334541 1-Jul-2015 01:30
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Ubiquiti Edgerouter.... seems to get either respect... or claims it is over-rated!

Difficult to know who to believe. Anyone care to add more to the argument (either for or against)?

Really pleased to get a range of opinions, so Thank you.

Mike

overkill
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  #1334584 1-Jul-2015 07:58
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miked: Ubiquiti Edgerouter.... seems to get either respect... or claims it is over-rated!

Difficult to know who to believe. Anyone care to add more to the argument (either for or against)?

Really pleased to get a range of opinions, so Thank you.

Mike


Give the great guys a call @ www.gowifi.co.nz and ask them for advice between both Ubiquiti and Mikrotik routers, they are the importers and cross trained in both products.  Every time I have asked for help or questioned their products they have been fantastic to deal with and non-biased to any product except the one that would suit you best.




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SumnerBoy
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  #1334635 1-Jul-2015 08:53
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 Give the great guys a call @ www.gowifi.co.nz and ask them for advice between both Ubiquiti and Mikrotik routers, they are the importers and cross trained in both products.  Every time I have asked for help or questioned their products they have been fantastic to deal with and non-biased to any product except the one that would suit you best.


+1 for GoWifi - very helpful and knowledgeable!

graemeh
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  #1334739 1-Jul-2015 10:22
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miked: Ubiquiti Edgerouter.... seems to get either respect... or claims it is over-rated!


I have one and it handles my 100/50 connection without breaking a sweat and also lets me re-direct DNS queries from my media players to the unblock-us DNS servers without affecting my other devices.

So it does what I want and more besides.

The negative is that it is a pain in the bum to configure (although getting better), the documentation is limited and there are probably easier to use options out there.

Overall I'd probably buy another one if I needed one.

miked

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  #1339574 8-Jul-2015 23:33
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Our speed reprovision has finally gone through from Chorus.

Testing on the new faster connection shows our RVL200 is still maxing out at about 30Mbit/s (both up and down). Confirmed from laptop into ONT that we are getting 200/100 connection now so Chorus bottleneck has genuinely been fixed now (tested at 186Mbit/s down and 103Mbit/s up at ONT).

So we'll definitely want to shift from the RVL200 at some point soon (although we are already doing better than the 15/2 cable connection we replaced).

So with that in mind, I had a conversation with GoWifi today about router options.

Long and short of it was that they recommended either the RB2011 or the CCR1009 depending on budget and future-proofing needs. They were convinced the RB2011 was up to the task though, (and equally convinced the CRS109 wasn't up to it - despite them having the same processor base!). I'm not sure I agree from my own reading, but who knows....

I had to specifically ask about the RB1100AHx2 and they guy said that would sit between the two, but unless money was tight he'd jump straight to the CCR as being better value in that sort of price range.

I also had to ask about the RB850Gx2, but the guy seemed to not be really aware of it, but said it might be a contender.

I also asked about dual core upgrades to all the above models. The only one he knew about was the RB3011 which is apparently the Dual Core replacement for the RB2011, which he thinks is probably shipping in about 3 - 4 months (at his best guess!). Sounds like that could be the ideal unit for us, as long as we can afford to wait.

Our cabinet is a mini 10" wide unit, so the larger rack mount units would have nowhere obvious to be located, whereas a RB2011/CRS109/RB3011 sized unit would fit perfectly on top of the cabinet, so our preference is away from the CCR1009 or RB1100 units if possible.

So I think we'll continue to wait for now.

Whether we'll wait on 30/30 on the RVL200..... or temporarily swap in the ISP supplied D-Link router for full 200/100 access.... I don't know. (the D-Link is only available for ISP to configure for us, we get no access to the setup pages - hence needing our own router ultimately).

At least knowing the name now of the RB3011 allows me to start researching it to get an idea of shipping date, spec and features!

I wasn't that convinced by the guy I spoke to today. I also forgot to ask about Ubiquiti Edge routers, or any other recommendations for that matter... so I might phone back for another chat.

Thanks everyone for the input. Most helpful.

Mike


michaelmurfy
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  #1339586 8-Jul-2015 23:43
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Sounds like they were pretty helpful.

I'd still go and ask about the Ubiquiti Edgerouter + a UniFi access point (either the UniFi Pro or the UniFi AC). Again, you're spending more but it is awesome in the process. The RB2011 and the CCR1009 can route a 200mbit UFB connection but this is with around 90% CPU utilisation and is very dependant on how many rules you've got running in the firewall + what other services you've got running.

Bang for buck the EdgeRouter Lite is awesome, or you could go for that "little bit" more and go for one of the Rackmount EdgeRouters just to show off your rack a little.

I used to be all for Mikrotik and actually still am however the EdgeRouters have really impressed me with their speed, price and capability. Also I really like their cheesy advertisement which I think is very fitting in your current case :) -





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz | https://keybase.io/michaelmurfy - Referral Links: Sharesies | Electric Kiwi
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JWR

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  #1339598 9-Jul-2015 00:11

LOL cat pictures restored.

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