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ki87

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#44459 27-Oct-2009 20:50
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Hi, was wondering if you guys could help me, im 22 and thinking of breaking into the I.T industry.  As a computer technician,administration,  or maybe network support. I was thinking, what would be the best way for me to attack this?   I don’t have any experience in any of this. 

Studying at Ace or Auldhouse is thousands of dollars for courses that last a few days or a week.  If I need to upskill myself in the future I may consider



  • Ames:Less expensive (being 16grand for one year) That is still quite expensive

  • Computer power institute.  I don’t know any thing about it.  Electec is only 5k.

  • Of course there university. If I was fresh out of school then possibly.  But I’d like to avoid 4 years in university (if I can) so I’m not 26 by the time I’m qualified. 




SO guys, whats the deal? What’s worth studying? To get a job as a computer technician, network support or admin.  What gets me a job is obviously most important but whats the equivalent that isn’t so expensive!?  Thanks

 

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johnr
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#267453 27-Oct-2009 21:07
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Go and Study whats at the beach lots of talent there in summer more interesting than stuck in a office

 
 
 

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nickd
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  #267498 27-Oct-2009 22:16
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lifeguard here. Happen to agree with johnr.

8d52797c436
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  #267501 27-Oct-2009 22:23
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There's no quick fix to be honest. There's a reason that the degrees take 3-4 years, cause even when you finish, it'll be dam hard to find a job doing anything. My advice would be do a degree, cause even at 26 that'll mean that you will still most likely be better off by 30 than you would if you spent a year at some tech and started working in support. Also, it will give time for the economic crisis to be over, cause at the moment even with a degree its slim pickings in the job market.



nate
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  #267517 27-Oct-2009 23:06
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8d52797c436: There's no quick fix to be honest. There's a reason that the degrees take 3-4 years, cause even when you finish, it'll be dam hard to find a job doing anything. My advice would be do a degree, cause even at 26 that'll mean that you will still most likely be better off by 30 than you would if you spent a year at some tech and started working in support. Also, it will give time for the economic crisis to be over, cause at the moment even with a degree its slim pickings in the job market.


+1.

I have an IT degree and it certainly opens up more doors than if I didn't have it.

insane
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  #267529 28-Oct-2009 00:01
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nate:
8d52797c436: There's no quick fix to be honest. There's a reason that the degrees take 3-4 years, cause even when you finish, it'll be dam hard to find a job doing anything. My advice would be do a degree, cause even at 26 that'll mean that you will still most likely be better off by 30 than you would if you spent a year at some tech and started working in support. Also, it will give time for the economic crisis to be over, cause at the moment even with a degree its slim pickings in the job market.


+1.

I have an IT degree and it certainly opens up more doors than if I didn't have it.


Thats interesting as I'm of a different mind. Everyday I feel that my IT & Business degree was a bit of a waste of time as I really don't use much of what I learnt directly at work on a day to day basis.

Uni does teach you how to think etc which has benifits and will help you after you've climbed the corporate ladder, but if you're in IT in NZ, then what you can actually do counts far more than what a certificate says you managed to do at uni. ie Experience > Qualification.


8d52797c436
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  #267566 28-Oct-2009 08:38
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Thats interesting as I'm of a different mind. Everyday I feel that my IT & Business degree was a bit of a waste of time as I really don't use much of what I learnt directly at work on a day to day basis.

Uni does teach you how to think etc which has benifits and will help you after you've climbed the corporate ladder, but if you're in IT in NZ, then what you can actually do counts far more than what a certificate says you managed to do at uni. ie Experience > Qualification.



It's true that university doesnt teach you everything you need to know, but it gives you fundamentals that you just cant pick up by doing something. Currently the job I am working in I work on a website in VB.Net using an SQL Server backend, and I covered neither of these things in uni, but I know that if I hadnt gone to university then I wouldnt have been able to pick them up as quickly as I had.

You also find that comprehension of the way things work and why we do things in a certain way greatly improved from university, and it's mostly things that you dont even think about that you studied.

Also, I would say that it is nearly impossible to get a job in IT now without some sort of degree, cause it was still pretty hard to get one even with it haha.

nate
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  #267648 28-Oct-2009 12:06
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insane: Thats interesting as I'm of a different mind. Everyday I feel that my IT & Business degree was a bit of a waste of time as I really don't use much of what I learnt directly at work on a day to day basis.

Uni does teach you how to think etc which has benifits and will help you after you've climbed the corporate ladder, but if you're in IT in NZ, then what you can actually do counts far more than what a certificate says you managed to do at uni. ie Experience > Qualification.


I think that is a fundamental difference in providers - I went to Manukau Institute of Technology (a polytech like AUT) and you went to a university.

I think universities are very theory based, explaining concepts and doing research.  A polytech is more hands on, learning as you do.

I use my degree every day, I majored in programming, and it's given me a good basis to work from.  I also use the concepts learnt in systems analysis when we scope out new projects, and the work we did in databasing (Interbase ick and Oracle ick ick) means my databases are optimal and won't make a "proper" DBA cry.



8d52797c436
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  #267649 28-Oct-2009 12:10
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...and the work we did in databasing (Interbase ick and Oracle ick ick) means my databases are optimal and won't make a "proper" DBA cry.


Amen to that, I already look at the stuff I wrote only 6 months ago and it makes me cringe a little.

I wish I had studied websites and databases at uni instead of thinking "I'll concentrate on hardware, operating systems, and networking cause no one does that and I'll be in high demand." Turns out people didnt study those much cause there's almost no work for them in NZ haha.

jahc
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  #276660 26-Nov-2009 21:09
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I also am deciding whether to study with Computer Power Institute in Christchurch. I want to learn some Java, and get an entry level programming position hopefully, and get my foot in the door. I'm another one of those guys that did C and C++ for years blah blah so I'm well and truly there. But if I study at Computer Power, do you guys reckon there'll be a job at the end of it? I'm thinking of their "Diploma of Information Technology (Software Development)". It'll be disapointing if I dont come away from this course with the knowledge needed to start a career in programming. I get the impression that you need the paper evidence to prove you know something.. I wont go far by saying "look I followed an online tutorial and a reference book and learned Java myself".

Some seem pretty convinced that Java is the way to go as well, but I'm willing to give anything a shot that will lead to employment.


xpd

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  #276751 27-Nov-2009 08:23
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NZ is expensive for IT qualifications - I got offered 3x the amount of certifications (A+, Network+ and some other one) via online training with Seek for around $9,000 NZD yet for me to go do it in person in NZ it was going to cost $25k+ easy.

As for the type of study, what do you want to do ?
Fix hardware/software problems ? Then a become a tech.
Design and implement networks etc ? Network Engineer
Look after and administer exisiting networks etc ? Network Admin

Dont train as a diver if you want to fly a plane ;)




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jahc
92 posts

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  #276754 27-Nov-2009 08:29
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Hi XPD :)

I wanna make software! but I want to learn the right stuff, to be able to get a job..

CB_24
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  #276760 27-Nov-2009 08:37
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University degrees are a waste of time and money in IT.
I don't have one and I've never had any regrets.

The areas you want quals in are the MS exams and other such areas, much more benefical.

8d52797c436
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  #276762 27-Nov-2009 08:46
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Do you have an idea of what sort of software? Are you interested in Web Applications or software that runs machines or commercial software solutions? There are unfortunately many areas of software development and while it can be pretty easy to move from one to the other with the basics it would make getting a job in the area you want a lot easier if you have studied it. It would also help you to stay interested in your studies, which is very important. I know more than a couple of people you dropped out because they came across papers that they weren't interested in and couldnt force themselves to put in the effort.

8d52797c436
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  #276775 27-Nov-2009 09:29
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CB_24: University degrees are a waste of time and money in IT.
I don't have one and I've never had any regrets.

The areas you want quals in are the MS exams and other such areas, much more benefical.


I may be biased because I finished my degree the end of last year, but I think that the usefullness of a degree is completely dependant on what papers you have choosen. One of the big issues facing universities these days is lowering the bar for accepting students and making it too easy to pass and obtain a degree. Becoming a business rather than an academic institute. It is possible to graduate with a BSc in Computer Science and have done only a handful of computer science papers, but you will suffer in the end. A friend of mine spent 4 years at university, but took easy papers that weren't relative to his degree (like philosophy) at every chance he could. He now works at Repco.

On the other hand if you are willing to put in the work university will help you gain an understanding of computers that goes far beyond just knowing how to program. Learning not only good practices but also learning why they are good practices. Although to be fair I do not know much about the MS quals etc so I do not know how in depth these go.

Also keep in mind it's a competitive industry out there. I was in charge of recruiting an entry level employee back in August, and we received over 100 c.v.'s. If I was to look at a c.v. where a person had a 3 or 4 year degree vs someone with a 1 year course behind them, I would probably go for the 3 year degree unless there was something extradionary on the other persons c.v.

patatrat
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  #276796 27-Nov-2009 10:38
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I don't think the usefulness of a degree is anyway dependant on what papers you have chosen, or what degree you do for that matter.

Sure, a lot of the developers around me have comp-sci degrees, but I've got a commerce degree, the solution architect next to me has an English degree and the data architect on the other side of me has a management degree of all things.

But a degree is useful in itself - it puts you above all other applicants that don't have one. Proves you can stick something out for 3 - 4 years, and shows you can understand the damn forms you need to fill out to get your degree.

A degree will help you in almost anything you do. A certificate or diploma in a particular tech will help you get a job in that particular tech and nothing else.

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