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  Reply # 1103352 6-Aug-2014 14:45
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NonprayingMantis:
It's only financially beneficial in the very very short term until Sky et al renew contracts (which they do all the time)


You're right that it's not sustainable, but it's not as short term as you thin. Sky don't really have any bargaining power to negotiate lower fees. Sky's customer base is still growing (or at least it was as at 31 Dec 2013), and the studios are still not 'officially' selling to anyone else in the NZ regions.

Additional to this, Sky has made a huge investment in a content delivery network that they want to protect. This means that rights holders can actually charge Sky even more of a premium, knowing that newer delivery mechanisms (ie. the internet) significantly lower the barriers to entry of competitors. Sky want to maintain a monopoly position, and will pay to do so. Once they start to lose exclusive content rights, the critical mass of content they have disappears and so does they customer base (and their business). The studios know this, but they also know, that unless Sky finds some kind of leverage, they can just maintain those premiums.

At some point tho, too many people will move to Netflix like services and Sky will simply no longer have the subscriber base to afford the premiums. Until we get to this point, nothing much will change.

The assertion that the studios will do something about Netflix et al is flawed in that taking action hurts them more than not taking action. Blocking Netflix doesn't mean that those subscribers will then go back to Sky. While some of them might, many would either just choose to live without it, or would turn to piracy. This is bad for the studios because they have less net customers.

A move like this may stem the flow in the short term - but studios are also conscious of the longer term effects of this, such as increasing piracy and the negative press they get when they are seen to flex their muscles to detriment of consumers - much like we are seeing for Sky now.

Even if the studios are getting paid per subscriber by Netflix - which I don't think they are (let's say 50% goes on content, so about $4 per subscriber)  they will getting a shed load more from Sky per subscriber ($200m content, 800k subscribers equates to $25 per sub on content).  So everybody that switches from Sky to Netflix is a huge net loss for the studios.  
They'd much rather protect their geographic price model which is raking them in billions every year than collect the extra revenue from 20-30k extra Netflix subscribers


The studios are smart in that they don't directly charge per subscriber, but certainly factor that into their fixed charged. For example, Sky NZ pays less for a season of Game of Thrones because it has less subscribers than say, Foxtel or Netflix who pay more. However, if Sky's customer base decreases by, say 10%, they aren't likely a corresponding reduction in the cost of the next season. The studios just have to pretend that other factors that makes up the price have increased, and remind Sky that there are others who will be willing to pay pretty much the same amount to take those exclusive rights off them if they don't want them. You just have to look at PremierLeaguePass to see this is a reality for Sky they want to avoid.

On the other hand, they can say to Netflix, oh your subscriber base is bigger now, so the next season is going to cost you more.

Your point b) in the second section makes no sense at all.  They only concede the exclusivity doesn't exist if they take no action and continue to allow Netflix free reign in areas they haven't paid for.  By doing nothing, it gives Sky/TVNZ etc huge leverage when it comes to renegotiating content deals.  "We'll only pay you for exclusivity if you uphold your end and stop Netflix from selling here willy nilly"


Again, it doesn't actually give Sky much leverage at all. Sky has a vested interest in exclusivity - more so than studios. Sure, studios can squeeze more when there are exclusive deals, but their business model doesn't fully depend on it. Sky's does. For this reason, the studios can maintain exclusivity premiums for the next little while, simply because those paying them have no choice. By not officially giving the nod to Netflix, but allowing it to exist as a smaller sub-market, they can wash their hands of the problem, or even put it back on Sky et al (as they seem to be doing) by saying 'It's not our job to enforce your exclusive rights - it's yours'. 

Again, this can't/wont last forever, but the position they are in right now means the studios get away with this. The fundamentals of the market are changing, and will force a change in the business models of studios and providers in due course - but we aren't there yet.




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  Reply # 1103442 6-Aug-2014 16:17
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Like many, I dislike Sky and their monopolistic behaviour...but how can you really complain about their behaviour Slingshot?  One can't blame Sky (or the free to air channels) for banning ads from a company that is now actively encouraging and assisting their customer base to access another company's overseas content.   

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  Reply # 1103496 6-Aug-2014 17:07
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I haven't watched TVNZ, or Sky NZ properly in years. I probably watch maybe an hour a month, excluding the news on occasion.
Sky UK, and the BBC Channels, and the UK's Freeview service are all I need to get by.

 

Only issue is the timezone..

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  Reply # 1103501 6-Aug-2014 17:23
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PaulZA: I haven't watched TVNZ, or Sky NZ properly in years. I probably watch maybe an hour a month, excluding the news on occasion.
Sky UK, and the BBC Channels, and the UK's Freeview service are all I need to get by. Only issue is the timezone..


We like to watch a lot of TV, but the majority of what FTA and Sky offers us doesn't interest us. If we were to stick with that combo, this would probably give me 0-5 shows per week I'd be interested in watching (excluding news broadcasts). Getting NetFlix & Hulu into our household has been a revelation, with a veritable trevor trove of quality content for us to consume whenever we want to.

We're more than happy to pay a reasonable price for quality content, but Sky currently isn't offering us that. They are instead charging us a lot of money for very little content that we're interested in. This is the problem that Sky should be solving. Until they do, consumers like me will continue to look elsewhere.

I'm even happy to put up with some advertising on paid content, as long as it is kept to reasonable levels. I consider what Hulu does there as reasonable.


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  Reply # 1103563 6-Aug-2014 19:07
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NonprayingMantis:

my point to all of that was that the 'laws of commerce' that should apply when selling in NZ, to NZers, do, in fact apply to Sky. They do not apply to Netflix.

The only point I'll concede is the censorship one - the others are real examples.
So when your previous post claimed that it was Sky who thought the laws of commerce didn't apply to them, I thought I'd point out that the opposite is true.
And you have said nothing to refute that.



I don't want to turn this into a laboured back and forth argument, but I think that you misunderstood my earlier point. By "laws of commerce" I clearly didn't mean commercial law. I meant supply and demand, and the fact that consumers will tend to source legal material from the vendor offering the best value proposition. I didn't remotely mean that the same commercial law applies to companies in different countries (and nor should it), or to summarise any detailed clause by clause analysis of the fairness of international tax law, tax treaties and differences in various countries tax regimes and rates.

Yes exporting companies pay tax on profits in the countries they operate/reside in, not the countries they merely export to. That's true for Sky and for Netflix. It's also true for Amazon, Toyota, Fonterra, Fletcher Forests, and Sanford. Arguing that someone shouldn't buy from a company that isn't resident here for company tax (which is unfair) is close to an argument against anyone, in any country, importing anything. And I don't think you will find a single reputable economist who supports Autarky as a beneficial policy.

Arguing we shouldn't purchase from Netflix because it's "unfair" that a company that has no NZ presence and exports to NZ when it receives an order from someone here isn't bound by NZ consumer law is equally pointless and futile - and essentially an argument against anyone importing anything from anywhere. Are you, for instance, proposing that Fonterra should be bound by the consumer protection laws of Lesotho and pay company tax there, just because a person in Lesotho ordered a can of NZ milk powder off a NZ website and paid with Amex?

Companies are bound by the laws of the countries they reside/operate in, and that's life.It's a risk you take when you order offshore and make yourself the importer.

I suspect that we should probably terminate this aspect of the discussion, as it can only get tediously circular from here on in.

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  Reply # 1103615 6-Aug-2014 20:29
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TLDR,

Slingshot should just force *.sky.co.nz to go via their global mode so users for isky, skygo etc get a not available in your area message. Would be an amusing tit-for-tat, even if it effects their own users.

Or drill into the DNS logs for any SS customers who work for sky, I'm sure a few use global mode.


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Reply # 1103716 6-Aug-2014 22:47
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We were given instructions how to stream Netflix by our ISP quite some time ago..they advised not illegal but probably frowned upon by Netflix etc.  We are in transit now but considering going with vodafone TV plus having netflux etc and dropping sky after a long subscription period.  I'm not sure what vodafone's stance will be though, can they block streaming if we use unotelly with a VPN subscription?

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  Reply # 1103720 6-Aug-2014 23:03
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rippos: We were given instructions how to stream Netflix by our ISP quite some time ago..they advised not illegal but probably frowned upon by Netflix etc.  We are in transit now but considering going with vodafone TV plus having netflux etc and dropping sky after a long subscription period.  I'm not sure what vodafone's stance will be though, can they block streaming if we use unotelly with a VPN subscription?


you know vodafone TV is just re-badged Sky right? It's the same thing, but with a slightly different box.

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  Reply # 1103723 6-Aug-2014 23:11
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No I didnt know! we just want a good digital box without the expense of sky TV and not to be blocked for netflix etc. 

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  Reply # 1103725 6-Aug-2014 23:15
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rippos: No I didnt know! we just want a good digital box without the expense of sky TV and not to be blocked for netflix etc. 


Pretty sure that no ISP blocks Netflix in NZ

If you just want a good box, grab a PVR from JBHiFi or something. 

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  Reply # 1104465 7-Aug-2014 22:06
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I understand sky and tv3's position, I don't agree with it either, but would have thought that government funded broadcasting companies such as TVNZ should have to play any ad they are paid to.
I understand that companies are struggling with the disruption that the internet causes but in an age where suddenly we have to have licences to have radio's playing at work I think copyright laws are getting a little ridiculous. Hopefully the directors of slingshot won't be extradited for having a business model that embraces change. (only slight tongue in cheek)
 


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  Reply # 1104468 7-Aug-2014 22:10
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NonprayingMantis:
rippos: We were given instructions how to stream Netflix by our ISP quite some time ago..they advised not illegal but probably frowned upon by Netflix etc.  We are in transit now but considering going with vodafone TV plus having netflux etc and dropping sky after a long subscription period.  I'm not sure what vodafone's stance will be though, can they block streaming if we use unotelly with a VPN subscription?


you know vodafone TV is just re-badged Sky right? It's the same thing, but with a slightly different box.


Vodafone TV is our STB. We resell SKY services, hence if you look on our website you see, Vodafone TV - With SKY or With freeview...
Not portrayed in the way we are saying its just Vodafone TV and forgetting SKY.




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  Reply # 1104469 7-Aug-2014 22:13
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turnin: I understand sky and tv3's position, I don't agree with it either, but would have thought that government funded broadcasting companies such as TVNZ should have to play any ad they are paid to.
I understand that companies are struggling with the disruption that the internet causes but in an age where suddenly we have to have licences to have radio's playing at work I think copyright laws are getting a little ridiculous. Hopefully the directors of slingshot won't be extradited for having a business model that embraces change. (only slight tongue in cheek)
 



TVNZ is no more government "funded" than TV3 - it gets some money from NZ On Air in return for making and screening contracted programmes, but that's about it.

It is government owned. But, like the board of TV3 etc, the Board of TVNZ is legally required to act in the company's interest. Clearly they have formed the view that screening these ads isn't in TVNZ's interest. While I agree that it's a stupid decision, there is no obligation (legal, moral or otherwise) for them to do anything else if they don't want to.

Edit: Grammar/spelling

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  Reply # 1105180 8-Aug-2014 23:00
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JimmyH: 

TVNZ is no more government "funded" than TV3 - it gets some money from NZ On Air in return for making and screening contracted programmes, but that's about it.

It is government owned. But, like the board of TV3 etc, the Board of TVNZ is legally required to act in the company's interest. Clearly they have formed the view that screening these ads isn't in TVNZ's interest. While I agree that it's a stupid decision, there is no obligation (legal, moral or otherwise) for them to do anything else if they don't want to.

Edit: Grammar/spelling


And to elaborate further on this, TV3 also gets funding from NZ On Air for the same reason.  In fact, so does Sky.

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  Reply # 1107013 12-Aug-2014 12:32
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Some interesting news from Digital Spy in the UK - Netflix now tops the 3 million mark in the UK....

If they can even semi emulate that success here in NZ...Sky NZ are in the poo!

Full Story here....3 Million Netflix Brits!




I don't want no sugar in it - thank you very much

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