Sky shares plunge

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#1411151 22-Oct-2015 14:26

old3eyes:
MikeB4:
Jaxson:
MikeB4: TiVo a good example of this, it hit the NZ market too soon.

TIVO failed because it cost too much, was only marketed/sold via an internet company?!, and the addon upsell features lacked content.

Not so much because of the time it was released.

A 15 year old could have devised a better marketing plan for TIVO.

Agreed it's a shining example of how not to release a product. However when it first hit the market digital TV was still rolling out and they expected an ROI that was to quickquick. If TiVo was to be released now it would stand a better chance.

It's a pity that TiVo don't see this and do a relaunch with a new product and maybe bundle Netflix rather than Quickflix with it. They have some nice TiVo boxes in the US..

They really need a local company to back it though. Maybe TVNZ could use this as an opportunity, and they could have their TVNZ ondemand system on it. Even Spark / Lightbox , especially as Spark introduced the first one, and get it in retailers like the warehouse/noel leemings. If it isn't sold in local retailers stores, it can't really succeed, as that was the big mistake with the first tivo box IMO. Once they started selling them instore are a discounted rate, they all appeared to sell out. The new US Tivos are very nice indeed.

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ockel

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#1411155 22-Oct-2015 14:30

mattwnz:
ockel:
mattwnz: Sky have also for the problem with delivering 4k content. Streaming services are already doing it, but can skys satellite service support it? More people will be demanding it for their new 4k tvs. I wonder if the next rugby world Cup will make it to 4k in NZ.

Last world cup everyone was wondering if the next one (2016) was going to be 3D. tee hee.

4k and 3D? 3D though was always a gimmick that the movie studios hoped would get people going to the cinema. But 4k is really going to be the future, as normal HD just looks blurry on a huge screen.

Gimmicky? Not what the broadcasters and TV manufacturers were saying. ESPN had a 3D channel if I recall, and the EPL had games broadcast in 3D. Not just a movie studio thing.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

ockel

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#1411165 22-Oct-2015 14:43

mattwnz:
old3eyes:
MikeB4:
Jaxson:
MikeB4: TiVo a good example of this, it hit the NZ market too soon.

TIVO failed because it cost too much, was only marketed/sold via an internet company?!, and the addon upsell features lacked content.

Not so much because of the time it was released.

A 15 year old could have devised a better marketing plan for TIVO.

Agreed it's a shining example of how not to release a product. However when it first hit the market digital TV was still rolling out and they expected an ROI that was to quickquick. If TiVo was to be released now it would stand a better chance.

It's a pity that TiVo don't see this and do a relaunch with a new product and maybe bundle Netflix rather than Quickflix with it. They have some nice TiVo boxes in the US..

They really need a local company to back it though. Maybe TVNZ could use this as an opportunity, and they could have their TVNZ ondemand system on it. Even Spark / Lightbox , especially as Spark introduced the first one, and get it in retailers like the warehouse/noel leemings. If it isn't sold in local retailers stores, it can't really succeed, as that was the big mistake with the first tivo box IMO. Once they started selling them instore are a discounted rate, they all appeared to sell out. The new US Tivos are very nice indeed.

Can anybody tell me, what went wrong with the Tivo business model? It was/is an elegant that should have great consumer attraction yet struggles to maintain its own customer base in the US (still less than 1 million subs) and only manages to get by through selling via the media companies (but still only has another 4.5m subs). It makes EBITDA of c$150m pa which seems like its underdelivered as a growth story.
Why didnt it really take off?

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

mattwnz

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#1411169 22-Oct-2015 14:50

ockel:
mattwnz:
ockel:
mattwnz: Sky have also for the problem with delivering 4k content. Streaming services are already doing it, but can skys satellite service support it? More people will be demanding it for their new 4k tvs. I wonder if the next rugby world Cup will make it to 4k in NZ.

Last world cup everyone was wondering if the next one (2016) was going to be 3D. tee hee.

4k and 3D? 3D though was always a gimmick that the movie studios hoped would get people going to the cinema. But 4k is really going to be the future, as normal HD just looks blurry on a huge screen.

Gimmicky? Not what the broadcasters and TV manufacturers were saying. ESPN had a 3D channel if I recall, and the EPL had games broadcast in 3D. Not just a movie studio thing.

The big problem is you need glasses to use it. It is not the 3d holographic 3d that was in back to the future. Higher resolution IMO is far more important. It is gimmicky, and a fad, because 3d tv's aren't even advertised now as having that feature, it may come bundled with some still, but it is now a minor feature.

langi27

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#1411175 22-Oct-2015 14:58

I see sky have a permanent offer running where you can get Sports and Movies for free on 12 month deal at the basic package rate.

http://www.skytv.co.nz/Direct

I signed up to this couple months ago, when I thought I was getting a good deal. (also thought it was going to expire)

So its fair to say Sky are in a continuing cycle of discounting their product to sign up new customers.

Less Customers permanently paying less will no doubt effect your bottom line.

Surely not a sustainable business model.

mattwnz

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#1411178 22-Oct-2015 15:10

langi27: I see sky have a permanent offer running where you can get Sports and Movies for free on 12 month deal at the basic package rate.

http://www.skytv.co.nz/Direct

I signed up to this couple months ago, when I thought I was getting a good deal. (also thought it was going to expire)

So its fair to say Sky are in a continuing cycle of discounting their product to sign up new customers.

Less Customers permanently paying less will no doubt effect your bottom line.

Surely not a sustainable business model.

Newspapers did this for a while. I was regularly getting called up a few years ago with really cheap 3 month subscriptions. The fact that the OSH requirements meant it was impossible for the delivery person to get the paper into my letter box, and with was thrown onto the wet drive to get picked up by kids passing by was the real problem with that. But I haven't been called up for a long time, and papers seem to be on the slow decline, which the online version is just filled with fluffy clickbait stories.

richms

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#1411190 22-Oct-2015 15:45

Davy:
Then along comes Netflix, and for $13 a month everything is in HD and can be watched on demand. It's no surprise that Netflix has thrived under Sky's curation of its core product. Sky TV's failure has little to do with their technology - their network and their set-top hardware are just fine - but has much to do with corporate complacency and product stagnation.

Their technology is terrible. The boxes are all slow and dated with horrible software on them. Anything they have done online has been a turd. First attempt at sky go was a disaster with it never working for people.

Richard rich.ms

richms

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#1411192 22-Oct-2015 15:49

ockel:
4k and 3D? 3D though was always a gimmick that the movie studios hoped would get people going to the cinema. But 4k is really going to be the future, as normal HD just looks blurry on a huge screen.

Gimmicky? Not what the broadcasters and TV manufacturers were saying. ESPN had a 3D channel if I recall, and the EPL had games broadcast in 3D. Not just a movie studio thing.

The problem is that sports and TV in general is not made for a large screen like movies are, so you end up with 3 foot tall faces on your wall talking at you, everything is close ups etc. Movies are always done with wider shots since they are shown large. Its not just 4k that is needed to make TV better on large screens, they need to change how they make it.

As they are still putting the score on sports 18" in from the side to allow for people with old skinny screens set on center cut, I think the chances of sports being videod in a form for 80+ " screens to look good in a lounge room are a long way off.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

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#1411202 22-Oct-2015 15:51

richms:
Davy:
Then along comes Netflix, and for $13 a month everything is in HD and can be watched on demand. It's no surprise that Netflix has thrived under Sky's curation of its core product. Sky TV's failure has little to do with their technology - their network and their set-top hardware are just fine - but has much to do with corporate complacency and product stagnation.

Their technology is terrible. The boxes are all slow and dated with horrible software on them. Anything they have done online has been a turd. First attempt at sky go was a disaster with it never working for people.

And then they rolled out igloo, which is an even worse box. Maybe sky should do a lightbox, and concentrate on their online Neon service. Maybe calling it sky instead of a new brand may have helped with that, and actually have all their content on it, including support. Maybe they have too many different brands too, I mean they have sky, igloo, and neon, which just confuses people. They do appear to work on the model of pricing plan, where if you want the best content, you have to be on an expensive plan. But with online streaming offerings, people can now pick and chose the content they want, and can now connect to overseas services for that content.

MikeB4

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#1411236 22-Oct-2015 16:41

mattwnz:
richms:
Davy:
Then along comes Netflix, and for $13 a month everything is in HD and can be watched on demand. It's no surprise that Netflix has thrived under Sky's curation of its core product. Sky TV's failure has little to do with their technology - their network and their set-top hardware are just fine - but has much to do with corporate complacency and product stagnation.

Their technology is terrible. The boxes are all slow and dated with horrible software on them. Anything they have done online has been a turd. First attempt at sky go was a disaster with it never working for people.

And then they rolled out igloo, which is an even worse box. Maybe sky should do a lightbox, and concentrate on their online Neon service. Maybe calling it sky instead of a new brand may have helped with that, and actually have all their content on it, including support. Maybe they have too many different brands too, I mean they have sky, igloo, and neon, which just confuses people. They do appear to work on the model of pricing plan, where if you want the best content, you have to be on an expensive plan. But with online streaming offerings, people can now pick and chose the content they want, and can now connect to overseas services for that content.

Igloo is a joint venture so not solely them. We were using igloo up until a few weeks back and the box was OK. Most of the bugs were ironed out, the only ongoing one that I was experiencing was the device restarting during the early hours of the morning.
The concept was good with the added channels to make Freeview somewhat OK. Without the 13 Sky channels added Freeview is garbage. I would have lied to have seen a more mix and match menu with maybe a Sky channel and Movie channel being able
to be selected.

Spyware

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#1411264 22-Oct-2015 17:48

You mean Igloo was a joint venture.

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MikeB4

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#1411281 22-Oct-2015 18:19

Spyware: You mean Igloo was a joint venture.

As of today igloo is still an "is" and not a "was"

JimmyH

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#1411283 22-Oct-2015 18:21

They have lost sight of much of their core market, and not responded to emerging competition.

People join Sky for one of two reasons: they are sports fanatics and/or they like to enjoy quality entertainment.

I'm not so much in the sports camp, other than rugby, but they appear to have lost a number of the key sports that appealed to people (think English Premier League and a lot of Golf) that appealed to the sports group. I think after the RWC they will lose a few more.

I'm more in the good entertainment camp.

On the entertainment front people want good content and an enjoyable viewing experience. They still (mostly) have content, but seem to have lost sight of needing to provide an enjoyable experience if they want to get circa $100/month out of people. The picture quality they provide is poor - over compressed, dirty great logos smeared over it, and some very strange picture formatting decisions (both letterboxed and pillarboxed in some cases!). Notwithstanding the poor picture quality, the viewing experience is even worse - other than a few channels they:

interrupt the programming constantly with ad/promo breaks, worse than Freeview in some cases
compress the credits to half the screen to shout more promos at you
have little spinning logos pushing MySky over pop up every movie; and
keep putting banners across the bottom of the screen promoting coming shoiws while content is playing.

Netflix don't do this. And they are much cheaper. Not all of Sky's woes are technology drives, crazy decisions to treat subscribers with contempt and trash their viewing experience are a large part of it IMO.

If I was a shareholder I would be looking for some new directors, fairly sharpish......

Spyware

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#1411307 22-Oct-2015 18:29

MikeB4:
Spyware: You mean Igloo was a joint venture.

As of today igloo is still an "is" and not a "was"

What do you mean??, Sky bought remaining TVNZ share for a $1 years ago.

MikeB4

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#1411310 22-Oct-2015 18:35

Spyware:
MikeB4:
Spyware: You mean Igloo was a joint venture.

As of today igloo is still an "is" and not a "was"

What do you mean??, Sky bought remaining TVNZ share for a $1 years ago.

Sorry I thought your " was a joint venture" meant that igloo had gone.

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