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blakamin
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  #1725439 23-Feb-2017 22:39
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Since everyone is talking about televised sport, I'm thinking the reason the price keeps going up is because people keep paying more for it. The market etc...

 

Stop paying and see what happens.

 

 

 

Just a thought.


mattwnz
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  #1725440 23-Feb-2017 22:41
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

I favour satellite. Its old, but its great. It also keeps away from NZ bandwidth. If the deal with Optus can't be done, then Sjy will go for "new" technology. This will silence the critics and have 800,000 users using BB instead of not using BB. The rural people will need another solution, as the old ad outdated technology has been retired. Sky, with the set in stone date of 2018/19 is set to stay on satellite, with enhanced services such as free OD, or can move to SVOD in full. They cannot do that before an Optus deal is done or not done. In the meantime, subscriber numbers are not dropping 25% year on year 

 

 

Satellite potentially is a great solution for rural. However the actual capacity must be quite restrictive. For example Freeview broadcasts I have found are very compressed, and fast motion complex image are almost unwatchable. I am guessing for them in increase it, they would need to pay for more capacity, or if maybe the satellites hardware needs updating?

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1725441 23-Feb-2017 22:41
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richms:

 

tdgeek:

 

I found F1 on Fanpass rubbish. Well 7/10 at best commuted to Sky Sport via satellite.  I found cricket in India worse than rubbish, I assume that was the other end? I found golf ok, it was sharp as a tack, but had judder. These were all live. What I assumed, correct me if I am wrong, is that a live stream has to be perfect. Frame by frame.

 

 

Nope, and skys broadcasts are far from frame by frame as they butcher everything down to a 50i stream from what would normally be a 60p source.

 

tdgeek:

 

From across the ditch to across the globe. The interwebs go through a myriad of distance and connect points. Should live streaming be not live, as in a 10 or 30 second buffer, all that is resolved. Satellite is literally one point to point, the satellite to my decoder

 

I find SkyGo fine, thats on an iPad with the app. Anything on a PC or browser I hate. Judder. 

 

 

Plenty of buffers in the sky network as things go thru various encoders etc, which require a look ahead so they can split the meager satilite bandwidth per transponder down to the various streams that are being forced into it. None of that matters online where you just set the bitrates on each stream and let the client choose between them if the clients connection to the CDN is trash, whereas on sat everyone suffers poor quality lower resolution when the encoders decide that the bits are more important on another channel instead of the one you are watching.

 

 

Tks again Rich. You make it sound like Satellite is poor, narrow bandwidth, hamstrung. Why is all the sport I watch, great? For that matter anything in HD (I have HD ticket) I don't see any glitches, periods of decreased quality, its always great. I know on some if not more than some doco channels its degraded, and I think you and I may have mentioned that months ago. Sea looks great, till it moves and its pixellated. Consistent pixelation, which means lower res.




tdgeek
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  #1725444 23-Feb-2017 22:43
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blakamin:

 

Since everyone is talking about televised sport, I'm thinking the reason the price keeps going up is because people keep paying more for it. The market etc...

 

Stop paying and see what happens.

 

 

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Everything goes up. Sky wise, I assume its typically a CPI based type of figure? If so, its BAU, like the annual reviews that we all decline to decline.


tdgeek
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  #1725445 23-Feb-2017 22:46
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

I favour satellite. Its old, but its great. It also keeps away from NZ bandwidth. If the deal with Optus can't be done, then Sjy will go for "new" technology. This will silence the critics and have 800,000 users using BB instead of not using BB. The rural people will need another solution, as the old ad outdated technology has been retired. Sky, with the set in stone date of 2018/19 is set to stay on satellite, with enhanced services such as free OD, or can move to SVOD in full. They cannot do that before an Optus deal is done or not done. In the meantime, subscriber numbers are not dropping 25% year on year 

 

 

Satellite potentially is a great solution for rural. However the actual capacity must be quite restrictive. For example Freeview broadcasts I have found are very compressed, and fast motion complex image are almost unwatchable. I am guessing for them in increase it, they would need to pay for more capacity, or if maybe the satellites hardware needs updating?

 

 

 

 

May well be, but TBH I have found it to be very very good I(Sky). My FTA is Terrestrial, I have no idea how sat compares. 

 

If Sky cannot get a good deal for Optus, surely satellite is gone? Cannot have both. I imagine user pays for rural would be through the roof


richms
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  #1725446 23-Feb-2017 22:46
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mattwnz:

 

Satellite potentially is a great solution for rural. However the actual capacity must be quite restrictive. For example Freeview broadcasts I have found are very compressed, and fast motion complex image are almost unwatchable. I am guessing for them in increase it, they would need to pay for more capacity, or if maybe the satellites hardware needs updating?

 

 

A lot of that is the interlacing/deinterlacing, which can only fill in the missing lines based on guesses from previous and upcoming fields, which when things are moving fast are not much use. Worst on the 576i crap that is most of their channels.





Richard rich.ms

mattwnz
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  #1725447 23-Feb-2017 22:47
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Can you quantify these points?

 

Many Sky subscribers don't watch it? many is what? 20%? 50%

 

You cannot suggest SD as an option, when many Sky "dislikers" complain about SD, and HD and 4k. 

 

CDN's everywhere, for sure, agreed.

 

Many people are watching OD? How many is many? I have easy options for OD, Apple TV 4, easy. I dint watch OD, I watch programs. I don't chase new technology, cool streaming, I chase content. I could not care less where or who has it. This is why I sigh when I read people here say I ditched Sky as I don't use it. Fool. There got Sky to use it, but the truth be known, they ditched Sky to use another option to save money, so they make do with option 2

 

If elderly have iPads  and stream TVNZ On Demand, why do they have Sky?

 

Sky is OD. Also PayTV like LB and NF and Neon. Sky is like Apple vs Android a few years ago, its too emotive. Its JUST a TV service, that suits some people, doesnt suit others. Like LB or NF or Neon, or FTA

 

 

 

 

Based on the people I know who have sky. But I doubt there are any official publicly numbers on this. I don't know if they would put that info into their shareholder newsletters either.

 

Many of the elderly have sky for the old TV shows, and UK TV. TVNZ Ondemand for Coronation street. So they are also chasing the content to a degree. Also many elderly are still using old TVs that aren't free-view compatible, so are using the sky box as a way to get free tv channels. One elderly person I know was given free Mysky for their basic connection. They are far less likely to change something that works for them.




richms
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  #1725450 23-Feb-2017 22:50
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tdgeek:

 

Tks again Rich. You make it sound like Satellite is poor, narrow bandwidth, hamstrung. Why is all the sport I watch, great? For that matter anything in HD (I have HD ticket) I don't see any glitches, periods of decreased quality, its always great. I know on some if not more than some doco channels its degraded, and I think you and I may have mentioned that months ago. Sea looks great, till it moves and its pixellated. Consistent pixelation, which means lower res.

 

 

They are short of bandwidth. The move to dvbs2 will help with that, but the modulations were made when 4-5 megabits for a SD channel was a massive amount and now there are channels running at under 2 for long times.

 

Chances are the other channels are getting screwed down inorder to make room for the sports which by their nature are very bursty with motion, and then long periods of almost nothing when they show scores and similar.





Richard rich.ms

tdgeek
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  #1725451 23-Feb-2017 22:51
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Can you quantify these points?

 

Many Sky subscribers don't watch it? many is what? 20%? 50%

 

You cannot suggest SD as an option, when many Sky "dislikers" complain about SD, and HD and 4k. 

 

CDN's everywhere, for sure, agreed.

 

Many people are watching OD? How many is many? I have easy options for OD, Apple TV 4, easy. I dint watch OD, I watch programs. I don't chase new technology, cool streaming, I chase content. I could not care less where or who has it. This is why I sigh when I read people here say I ditched Sky as I don't use it. Fool. There got Sky to use it, but the truth be known, they ditched Sky to use another option to save money, so they make do with option 2

 

If elderly have iPads  and stream TVNZ On Demand, why do they have Sky?

 

Sky is OD. Also PayTV like LB and NF and Neon. Sky is like Apple vs Android a few years ago, its too emotive. Its JUST a TV service, that suits some people, doesnt suit others. Like LB or NF or Neon, or FTA

 

 

 

 

Based on the people I know who have sky. But I doubt there are any official publicly numbers on this. I don't know if they would put that info into their shareholder newsletters either.

 

Many of the elderly have sky for the old TV shows, and UK TV. TVNZ Ondemand for Coronation street. So they are also chasing the content to a degree. Also many elderly are still using old TVs that aren't free-view compatible, so are using the sky box as a way to get free tv channels. One elderly person I know was given free Mysky for their basic connection. They are far less likely to change something that works for them.

 

 

I can get that. "Dunno what it is, don't touch it Sonny"!  "Dang know it all whipper snappers, grumble grumble...."

 

 


richms
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  #1725452 23-Feb-2017 22:59
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tdgeek:

 

I can get that. "Dunno what it is, don't touch it Sonny"!  "Dang know it all whipper snappers, grumble grumble...."

 

 

"Dont change anything or I will have to get the man in to make it work again!"





Richard rich.ms

darylblake
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  #1725464 24-Feb-2017 06:15
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Talkiet:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Live streaming is rubbish. The internet cannot provide smooth, buffer free live broadcast. It can provide smooth OD as that is buffered. But Sky cannot do satellite AND SVOD

 

 

You're wrong. "The Internet" can and does provide smooth, buffer free live broadcasts. It just doesn't do it on every platform. I watched the entire Bathurst event a couple of years on a (legit/paid) 1080p live stream and didn't have a single buffering event or glitch the whole race.

 

That said, I frequently use SkyGo and it's a crapshoot. Some days it's smooth and goes for hours, and some days it is jerky, buffers, stops every so often, logs me out etc... The picture quality is also crap. probably the equivalent of a bad, highly compressed SD Sky signal"

 

But don't blame the Internet for a bad implementation of a streaming platform/solution.

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. But it sounds like they have not quite nailed internet streaming. Surely improvements can be made. I know netflix is cached but it works so darn well. 


darylblake
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  #1725465 24-Feb-2017 06:18
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richms:

 

tdgeek:

 

Tks again Rich. You make it sound like Satellite is poor, narrow bandwidth, hamstrung. Why is all the sport I watch, great? For that matter anything in HD (I have HD ticket) I don't see any glitches, periods of decreased quality, its always great. I know on some if not more than some doco channels its degraded, and I think you and I may have mentioned that months ago. Sea looks great, till it moves and its pixellated. Consistent pixelation, which means lower res.

 

 

They are short of bandwidth. The move to dvbs2 will help with that, but the modulations were made when 4-5 megabits for a SD channel was a massive amount and now there are channels running at under 2 for long times.

 

Chances are the other channels are getting screwed down inorder to make room for the sports which by their nature are very bursty with motion, and then long periods of almost nothing when they show scores and similar.

 

 

How do you know this to be the case. Local bandwidth is quite cheap. Surely Vodafone would do them a deal or something. I was watching some water falling onto the ground while streaming the cricket the other day when they had rain delays before that shortened 30 over ODI. It was struggling to display that properly. But other than that it has been ok.


richms
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  #1725511 24-Feb-2017 08:56
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Vodafone can't magic up more satellite capacity. Moving belatedly to dvbs2 and h264 will help. But probably by the time they finish everyone else will be on h265 and something else to get more capacity.




Richard rich.ms

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  #1725945 24-Feb-2017 21:41
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I don't think the broadcast tech is really that important to the whole situation.

 

Sky's business model has been based on owning all the contents, which allowed them to cross-subsidise like crazy (because people were under the mistaken impression they were getting value for money from a $50/month TV & movie bundle that was actually helping to fund Richie McCaw's lifestyle) and gave Sky greater rights bargaining power because free to air broadcasters just couldn't compete.

 

But fragmentation is Sky's enemy and we have reached a point with the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime entering the market where this fragmentation is never going away. Not many people are still willing to pay the Sky basic tax to support our poor starving rugby stars. Hence Sky seeking out a merger to find new ways to cross-subsidise their exclusive content and incorporate it into exotic new bundles.

 

Sport in particular is like an addiction (I bet there are people here who have committed crimes to secure sufficient funding to watch live sports) hence the comcom focus.





A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

tdgeek
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  #1726005 25-Feb-2017 07:34
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compost:

 

I don't think the broadcast tech is really that important to the whole situation.

 

Sky's business model has been based on owning all the contents, which allowed them to cross-subsidise like crazy (because people were under the mistaken impression they were getting value for money from a $50/month TV & movie bundle that was actually helping to fund Richie McCaw's lifestyle) and gave Sky greater rights bargaining power because free to air broadcasters just couldn't compete.

 

But fragmentation is Sky's enemy and we have reached a point with the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime entering the market where this fragmentation is never going away. Not many people are still willing to pay the Sky basic tax to support our poor starving rugby stars. Hence Sky seeking out a merger to find new ways to cross-subsidise their exclusive content and incorporate it into exotic new bundles.

 

Sport in particular is like an addiction (I bet there are people here who have committed crimes to secure sufficient funding to watch live sports) hence the comcom focus.

 

 

Fragmentation isn't Sky's issue. If you enjoy the lineup on Basic, such as UKTV, the doco channels, and the various lifestyle channels, and sport, you cant go to Netflix or Lightbox or Amazon to get those. You can find similar channels, but not the same. I find NF doco lineup very meh. They are more like fillers. 

 

The issue is the people think that the now standard pay tv cost is $15 per month. So, Basic needs to be $20 max, lose the sports subsidy.

 

Cost to provide the service is high. Brick and mortar around the country, paying contractors to install dishes, repair dishes, dishes are circa $400. Last years results saw the profit per subscriber at $15 per month. Takes ages to recover the setup costs. SVID provides no brick and mortar, dishes, STB's, and a bare minimum support staff is needed.

 

So, get a substantial reduction when Optus is removed, remove all the brick and mortar and centralise the STB warehouse and HO/support, OR go SVOD only


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