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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 371265 22-Aug-2010 22:46
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Interesting discussion, I'm not aware of how SKY runs it's channels in much detail with regards to contracts etc but they must have some responsibilities to their customers in regards to the quality of the channels they are broadcasting? So they simply pass these channels through? I can't see how it would be hard for them to run the affected programs through a scaler of some kind and reframe them? It could possibly end up looking like complete garbage if it's a 4:3 letterboxed source, which maybe a reason for them not doing anything to it.
I guess if I was a customer of SKY my initial reaction would be to take any issues to the person collecting my money.

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  Reply # 371313 23-Aug-2010 06:58
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DS9:
sbiddle:
login: So by the same argument if you were to buy a new TV from a major NZ retailer and had a problem with it,  it's OK for them to say to you,  "No.  You will need to go back to the manufacturer overseas to get the problem fixed".  (No answer required, it's a rhetorical question).   8-)


I'm not sure if I get your point with this. Approaching the manufacturer of the product is the normal action for issues with a product. That's why manufacturers have support lines. If I had an issue with a Sony TV for example I'd contact the Sony NZ Support Line - not the retailer I purchased it from.

Sky don't create TV channels - they are a content broadcaster. They can't control the format that content is created in.



slightly wrong as the box, vibe, prime, sports channels and movie channels plus a few others are tv channels created by sky tv


And none of those channels have the issue here.


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  Reply # 371322 23-Aug-2010 07:46
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DS9:
old3eyes:
DS9:
sbiddle:
login:
So I reiterate.?? I am solely focusing on here is the phenomenon of black bars showing on all four sides.? The image size is shrunk as a result.? It's something we don't commonly see.


I explained why this occurs - it's when channels are broadcast?in 4:3 letterbox. Discovery is the most common example of this as all content on discovery is like this.

There are two ways to broadcast 16:9 content as 4:3 - either centre cut or letterboxed. In the early days centre cut was the preferred option as it meant no black bars on the top and bottom when viewed. The problem with centre cut is that when the material is filmed or when OSD graphics are added 4:3 safe areas have to be factored to avoid important parts of the picture being cut off. ESPN is a classic example of rmally with no 4:3 safe areas so lots of content has the sides chopped off.

The trend now is to use 4:3 letterbox rather than cantre cut which removes the need for 4:3 safe areas and ensures that the full picture can be seen on a 4:3 TV. The downside of this is bars on the top and bottom, and when viewed on a 16:9 TV bars on both sides which is known as the "postage stamp" effect.

The problem with Food TV was that content was presumably in 4:3 letterbox when Sky transferred it across to their digital playout system. Because the channel is now 16:9 this legacy material will have this issue but new content will be full 16:9



Food TV and Living as well as Discovery are all pass through channels that sky has no control over, contact the broadcaster if you are unhappy, @login do not use this as an excuse to bash Sky TV, now if you had asked for HD versions I would have agreed.


Oh yeah contact Sky if your not happy. ?You think for one second they will listen??


Sky TV has no control over those channels so you need to contact the owner of Living etc. as it is a pass through only.


If Sky are saying "we can't do anything about it, it's a pass-through" I don't think that lets them off the hook. They are effectively charging subscribers for all these channels and to fill up their EPG with pass-through crap and then say 'we can't do anything' is just not on.

For me the root of this is that Sky are effectively a monopoly and they don't really give a rodent's rear about all this. This is also borne out in their customer service - ever tried to call them about anything? They are totally useless. I use their product but I can't stand them.

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  Reply # 371337 23-Aug-2010 08:32
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Living and Food channels which are the main issue if I am not mistaken, are provided by a local supplier that is not part of Sky. It seems that for sometime this supplier misunderstood what 16:9 is, they actually admitted that in an email to me. As such after I emailed them on several occasions (and I am sure many others did) they had an external consultant in to sort out their operations. They now do newly received content correctly in 16:9, material previous to some date of a month or two back that is currently in their servers (and has been for sometime) is now been played out with black boarders all around as they have no other way to treat it without getting back the source tapes.

I did note yesterday that some material has now lost the top and bottom boarders but has been stretched vertically to do so, I presume this is an attempt to reduce the bars on this historic ingestion.

As for Discovery and a couple of other channels that are in 4:3LB, I dont understand why this is so as I am pretty sure many of these channels are shared with Foxtel and last time I was in Aus I noted they were correctly in 16:9.

Cyril

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  Reply # 371404 23-Aug-2010 10:59
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Foxtel do Discovery HD that is 16:9 however the SD channel is produced in Singapore in 4:3LB and is shared between NZ and AU.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 371509 23-Aug-2010 14:47
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Well on reflection I now believe that 200 thousand Sky NZ customers complaining to Sky NZ and another 200 thousand complaining to the overseas content provider could well achieve the desired outcome.  Wink  But if we all shut up about it an sit on out hands, the status quo will undoubtedly prevail.

Quote from Cyril7: "I did note yesterday that some material has now lost the top and bottom boarders but has been stretched vertically to do so, I presume this is an attempt to reduce the bars on this historic ingestion."

Yes, I noticed this too on the next day after my initial post.  For me this is a better option, although I am sure not everyone will find it so.  On my TV I can change the video format (from memory its cinema2 on my Toshiba TV)  and I get a near perfect 16:9 widescreen picture with very little picture loss and no black bars whatsoever!

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 371894 23-Aug-2010 23:21
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But....!

A lot of stretching = lower quality picture

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 371936 24-Aug-2010 07:55
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login: Well on reflection I now believe that 200 thousand Sky NZ customers complaining to Sky NZ and another 200 thousand complaining to the overseas content provider could well achieve the desired outcome.  Wink  But if we all shut up about it an sit on out hands, the status quo will undoubtedly prevail.


Doesn't worry us as we never watch those channels, no complaining here.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 371940 24-Aug-2010 08:21
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RTFM seems to apply here.

There is always someone who will moan and think that they are the first to notice such changes.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 372017 24-Aug-2010 11:42
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Zippity: RTFM seems to apply here.

There is always someone who will moan and think that they are the first to notice such changes.


Is there a point to this post?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 372027 24-Aug-2010 11:52
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Is there a point to this post?


Is there a point to this thread?  

It has been covered time and time before.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 372036 24-Aug-2010 12:07
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Zippity:
Is there a point to this post?


Is there a point to this thread?  

It has been covered time and time before.


Where?

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 372073 24-Aug-2010 13:08
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login:
Zippity:
Is there a point to this post?


Is there a point to this thread?  

It has been covered time and time before.


Where?


Do some reading through the Sky forum - you see it all over and over...

Usually someone starts be-atchin how much they hate Sky, sometime based on fact, mostly sometimes not...

Mostly they want the Ethiopian Thai Boxing/Tiddlywinks channel to be shown in HD, or want to complain why there's black bars on Dougal Loves Cooking...  They usually demand it because every single Sky subscriber cares passionately enough to burn their houses down if it doesn't happen by tommorow... They know someone who watches Dougal Loves Cooking, so the whole country must watch it...

Most will have a complete lack of understanding of ratings, commercial economics, or the fact the not everyone wants to watch Star Trek, Dougal Loves Cooking, or the Ethiopian Thai Boxing/Tiddlywinks channel.

Everyone chucks in their 2 cents - many bleat on how they're going to cancel their subs for the 50th time this year.

Usually Clevedon then chimes in saying how happy he is with Sky, how it only costs the same as a cup of coffee, and how he's painted his house in Sky Blue, and with Sky logo's.  He also has over 100 MySky HDi decoders in every room of his house including in every toilet.  Don't forget this only costs him the same as a cup of coffee...

The rest of us just sit back and chuckle...

There should be a split in the Sky forum:

Sky - for all real questions/info:

Sky Be-atchfest - for all of this stuff...

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  Reply # 372080 24-Aug-2010 13:16
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That's not true RustyGonad. Everyone does want to watch Star Trek ;)

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Reply # 372084 24-Aug-2010 13:23
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RustyGonad: Usually Clevedon then chimes in saying how happy he is with Sky, how it only costs the same as a cup of coffee, and how he's painted his house in Sky Blue, and with Sky logo's.  He also has over 100 MySky HDi decoders in every room of his house including in every toilet.  Don't forget this only costs him the same as a cup of coffee...

It's funny 'cause it's true!

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