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  Reply # 498417 27-Jul-2011 11:31
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Anything HD on Sky requires DVB-S2 which the normal decoders can't do (I doubt, please correct me).




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  Reply # 498429 27-Jul-2011 11:53
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Anything HD on Sky requires DVB-S2 which the normal decoders can't do (I doubt, please correct me).


Correct all the HD material on Sky is currently uplinked on 3 muxs that use 8PSK which is a DVB-S2 standard as opposed to QPSK which is the DVB-S and used on all other Sky/FreeViewSat muxs, and encoded with mpeg4 just as the DVB-T (FreeView|HD) is, and obviously its encrypted with Skys NDS Videoguard.

Cyril



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  Reply # 498442 27-Jul-2011 12:03
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Talkiet:
24grape:
Yes, this is the kinda of thing the govt should have worked out from the start.  A single standard of broadcast quality (Freeview|HD) and made it available thru sky for a dollar a day.   As it is freeview has different channels depending on whether its UHF or satellite.


Question: Do u actually need the MySkyHDi decoder to receive TV 1,2,3 in HD in skys basic package, of just the normal decoder? 

This is not made at all clear on the Sky website, infact a lot is not made clear.  Their website reminds me of Telcoms horrific website of ambiguity.


I'm sorry, why do you still believe that everyone in the country is entitled to get HD? There are always some places where for a variety of reasons it's impractical or too expensive to give the same service as is available in dense population areas.

You haven't addressed my previous post asking if you agree that someone in Fiordland should be able to get Freeview HD even if it means the govt putting up another satellite just for them.

Your other question - Yes, the MySky HDi decoder is required as far as I know for 1,2,3 in HD on the basic Sky package.

Cheers - N



WEll i'll wait for someone who does the know the answer.

I'm not going answer yr question, because the analogy u discussed is absurd.  It’s not an argument around logic its an argument around numbers and proportional representation.  I live in centre of about 30,000 people approx 75 km clear view from wellington.  I can't believe that in this day and age of technology that centre of this size and location is struck off the list by the govt for receiving Freeview|HD.



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  Reply # 498446 27-Jul-2011 12:05
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I don't see how it is the Governments responsibility to ensure you get the best TV picture possible? We don't have public broadcasting in NZ and don't pay a license fee anymore and TVNZ is a SOE - it must make money.

Sky are a privately owned company, and they have struck a deal with TVNZ and Mediaworks (TV3) to re-broadcast their channels in HD - this benefits both Sky (would as many people want Sky if they couldn't get the FTA channels??) and TVNZ/Mediaworks.

Pretty much 100% of the country has access to all the FTA channels through the Freeview platform now - and even Freeview Satellite is better quality than Analog TV was/is and it reaches more people. I think it is a good service.

The OP is in the unfortunate scenario of living somewhere that is not covered by a terrestrial service (yet), but there are solutions - getting MySky being the cheapest and easiest.

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  Reply # 498456 27-Jul-2011 12:19
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24grape:
Talkiet: ...
Your other question - Yes, the MySky HDi decoder is required as far as I know for 1,2,3 in HD on the basic Sky package.


WEll i'll wait for someone who does the know the answer.

I can confirm that you need one of the MySky decoders in order to get HD on TV1/2/3.  We paid for MySky outright @ $599 when it launched some years ago, therefore the extra $15 per month doesn't apply to us.

My latest Sky invoice says the following:

Monthly Services:
Basic $39.13 + GST = $44.99

Whether you choose to pay the $599 upfront (or not) is up to you.  But having paid it, we are enjoying our TV in HD, 100s of km from the nearest major centre, for $44.99 per month.  It's your choice whether to do the same, or keep being unhappy with the FreeView service.

For our $44.99, we also get to enjoy some of the excellent programmes on offer from BBC World, Discovery & History Channels or UKTV.  I think it's a pretty good deal really, and just wish that my internet service came so cheaply.







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  Reply # 498473 27-Jul-2011 12:41
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grant_k: I can confirm that you need one of the MySky decoders in order to get HD on TV1/2/3.  We paid for MySky outright @ $599 when it launched some years ago, therefore the extra $15 per month doesn't apply to us.

My latest Sky invoice says the following:

Monthly Services:
Basic $39.13 + GST = $44.99

Whether you choose to pay the $599 upfront (or not) is up to you.  But having paid it, we are enjoying our TV in HD, 100s of km from the nearest major centre, for $44.99 per month.  It's your choice whether to do the same, or keep being unhappy with the FreeView service.

For our $44.99, we also get to enjoy some of the excellent programmes on offer from BBC World, Discovery & History Channels or UKTV.  I think it's a pretty good deal really, and just wish that my internet service came so cheaply.


Hey, thank you very much for the information.  It appears from the sky website that new subscribers pay:

$47.66/month.  Alas if i have fork out for MY SKY HDi at $599 i doubt i'll be subscribing soon. 

Out of interest tho, does that MY SKY HDi decoder also pick-up FTA channels off Optus D1 satellite and also standard freeview satellite?  I note that sky network doesn't carry all the freeview satellite channels eg George FM is not on sky.

Thanks.

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  Reply # 498480 27-Jul-2011 12:58
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24grape: It appears from the sky website that new subscribers pay:

$47.66/month.

I think you will find that the $47.66 per month includes Skywatch magazine, which we don't bother with because we find TV Guide better.  It covers the FTA channels indepth as well as an adequate listing of the Sky channels.

24grape: Out of interest tho, does that MY SKY HDi decoder also pick-up FTA channels off Optus D1 satellite and also standard freeview satellite?  I note that sky network doesn't carry all the freeview satellite channels eg George FM is not on sky.

Thanks.
Our MySky decoder sits in the cupboard, for reasons which I won't go into here.  Last time I used it, George FM was available on the channel listing, but you needed to pay a $3.16 monthly fee to access the digital music channels.

MySky HDi does not let you access the other FTA channels on Optus D1 such as TV3+1, Stratos etc. as well as the SBS channels from Aussie.  Which is part of the reason it now sits in our cupboard.  PM me if you want to know more.





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  Reply # 498481 27-Jul-2011 12:58
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24grape: [snip]

I'm not going answer yr question, because the analogy u discussed is absurd.  It’s not an argument around logic its an argument around numbers and proportional representation.  I live in centre of about 30,000 people approx 75 km clear view from wellington.  I can't believe that in this day and age of technology that centre of this size and location is struck off the list by the govt for receiving Freeview|HD.




My analogy is absolutely not absurd. It's just a difference in the extent and cost of the problem - but it's the same issue and economic factors at work... They are just more clearly visible in the extreme example I posted.

I'm not surprised that people living in an apparently open or populous location would be upset by not getting Freeview HD... Personally I'm in the same situation. I am in South New Brighton in Chch, with a large stand of trees between me and the Freeview HD transmitter.

I don't expect anyone to put up another transmitter just for me and a few hundred others so we can get Freeview in HD - despite people 100 metres away from me being able to get it... I can get Freeview from satelite, and I can get Sky HD (which I happen to do)

Cheers - N

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  Reply # 498491 27-Jul-2011 13:17
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Talkiet:
24grape: [snip]

I'm not going answer yr question, because the analogy u discussed is absurd.  It’s not an argument around logic its an argument around numbers and proportional representation.  I live in centre of about 30,000 people approx 75 km clear view from wellington.  I can't believe that in this day and age of technology that centre of this size and location is struck off the list by the govt for receiving Freeview|HD.




My analogy is absolutely not absurd. It's just a difference in the extent and cost of the problem - but it's the same issue and economic factors at work... They are just more clearly visible in the extreme example I posted.

I'm not surprised that people living in an apparently open or populous location would be upset by not getting Freeview HD... Personally I'm in the same situation. I am in South New Brighton in Chch, with a large stand of trees between me and the Freeview HD transmitter.

I don't expect anyone to put up another transmitter just for me and a few hundred others so we can get Freeview in HD - despite people 100 metres away from me being able to get it... I can get Freeview from satelite, and I can get Sky HD (which I happen to do)

Cheers - N


A few trees shouldn't affect the Freeview|HD signal too much.
We have just started getting Freeview|HD here in Whangarei and there are trees between us and the transmitter and the signal is coming through loud and clear.





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  Reply # 498494 27-Jul-2011 13:22
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CYaBro:
A few trees shouldn't affect the Freeview|HD signal too much.
We have just started getting Freeview|HD here in Whangarei and there are trees between us and the transmitter and the signal is coming through loud and clear.



These are the trees

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=christchurch,+nz&hl=en&ll=-43.525604,172.728328&spn=0.007507,0.012499&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=65.685051,102.392578&t=h&z=17

Ergh...
http://tinyurl.com/3r5uuhl

The trees are tall and pretty dense... I've had 2 aerial installers say that there's a pocket of people behind them that can't reliably get Freeview HD, even with high gain antennas. It's no biggie...

Cheers - N



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  Reply # 498503 27-Jul-2011 13:47
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They do have the package I was talking about!

http://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478

$33.70 a month for free-to-air channels with a MySkyHDi box.




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  Reply # 498504 27-Jul-2011 13:48
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From experience dense rows of trees if in the path (and significantly fowl the path) can cause significant issues.

Whilst it might not cause enough attenuation to effect service, assuming its big enough to start with, they cause a dynamic multipath situation that COFDM decoders are typically not fast enough to track, not so much a problem if there is no wind, big issue otherwise.

Best way to observe this is with a spec analyser, the multipath from trees will cause a notch in the band of carriers (seen as a tombstone), which if stationary is not a biggie as the decoders can adapt to that, but as soon as the trees move the notch will move up and down the band, if too fast the decoders will not adapt and fail, and fail big time.

COFDM is good at dealing with multipath, but only in certain circumstances.

I have seen this many times, and had to walk away from installs, unless the owner is keen on a chainsaw solution.

Cyril

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  Reply # 498509 27-Jul-2011 13:56
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cyril7: From experience dense rows of trees if in the path (and significantly fowl the path) can cause significant issues.

Whilst it might not cause enough attenuation to effect service, assuming its big enough to start with, they cause a dynamic multipath situation that COFDM decoders are typically not fast enough to track, not so much a problem if there is no wind, big issue otherwise.

Best way to observe this is with a spec analyser, the multipath from trees will cause a notch in the band of carriers (seen as a tombstone), which if stationary is not a biggie as the decoders can adapt to that, but as soon as the trees move the notch will move up and down the band, if too fast the decoders will not adapt and fail, and fail big time.

Thanks for explaining the mechanism behind this issue Cyril.  As it happens, I have a friend who uses Kordia's Extend service @ 2.3GHz running directly through a line of tall Poplar trees from the repeater on the Kaimai ranges.  In winter, it works OK because the trees drop their leaves.  In summer, it's OK unless there is a wind blowing.  I couldn't quite understand this until I saw your post.  Her service goes offline in summer whenever the wind is blowing strongly.  Not surprisingly, she isn't too happy, but more surprising is that her ISP went ahead with the install anyway.





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  Reply # 498516 27-Jul-2011 14:14
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Hi Grant, as soon as you see whats happening on the spec analyser it becomes obvious. Using a 10MHz span width so you see the whole 8MHz channel, you see a tombstone of the 8k carriers, and if there is a significant echo from the trees typically a modestly wide notch (say 0.5-1.5MHz wide and 6-10dB at the deepest), if there is no wind its a pretty much stationary notch, as soon as it blows it moves wildly up and down the band in sympathy, this action clearly is outside the adaption rate of the decoder.

Obviously the numbers I use above are just some vague numbers I recall from various situations, but you get the idea.

I have seen COFDM used in mobile situations, but I imagine there the echos might be faster but probably more scattered across the band and not as deep, so the overall impact is more spreadout.

Cyril



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  Reply # 498519 27-Jul-2011 14:20
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CYaBro: They do have the package I was talking about!

http://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/478

$33.70 a month for free-to-air channels with a MySkyHDi box.


Good sleuthing finding that out.  Do you think TV1,2,3 on that so called 'free-to-air' package come in HD?

The next question that arises:

Does the MySkyHDi decoder box also tune into channels outside the sky network buddle that are beamed from the same Optus D1 satellite i.e.  the 'real' FTA freeview SD and there are a few aussie and international channels too.

Cheers

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