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Kickass

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#4967 21-Apr-2004 21:44
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this thread was about MMS , :)

and when we can MMS vodafone from telecom , i would ilke to know when? anyone know

Nokia 3205 on telecom soon , which will rock.

but i would really like to know , how they are going to link up openwave MMS to Nokia/other ways of using MMS

i seen gsm phones with openwave mms , not working on vodafone Message center

jerrysweden
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#4968 21-Apr-2004 21:45
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you failed to mention...

large marketing budgets... some of the largest of any company
bonuses to MDs.. some of the largest of any company
offices... some of the finest
profits.... some of the biggest..


but if you're happy funding these guys.... then you go on ahead... me, i'll keep complaining.



 
 
 
 


Kickass

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#4969 21-Apr-2004 21:47
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i do agree SMS is a scam .

=)


shouldn't it come under the fair trading act? its a rip off :)

sbiddle
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#5004 23-Apr-2004 17:21
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Johnr says "If you read this thread its about how the price of PXT has come down to 20 cents from 50 cents, and how Telecom offers $10.00 all you can text, and if you think the infrastruce is so cheap you come up with the 500 million thats its going to cost vodafone to start building its 3G network in NZ and pay the staff wages and contractors power bills, rent and everything else that goes with running a mobile network. look at what its cost " 3 " to get where it is now"

Comparing 3 to Vodafone is completely different. Vodafone NZ didn't pay $billions too much for a 3G licence, they already have a GSM network established, they're not building towers from scratch and already have a backhaul network established to get the traffic around. Vodafone are effectively overlaying a WCDMA network on top of their existing infastructure, here in Wellington Vodafone are already gearing up for it, looking at quite a few sites over the past few weeks many major sites have had their 2 panels swapped out for 1 so they can bolt the new panels onto the existing site without having to worry about resource consent issues etc.

There is no disputing that Vodafone NZ is a big cash cow for the Vodafone group, unfortunately when you look at the Asia Pacific Region all we're doing here in NZ is making up for Vodafone oz performing so badly..:-(


Kickass

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#5007 23-Apr-2004 20:52
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yes i heard about how bad vodafone aus does.... only 2million people on there network?

i think vodafone should bring out some flat rate deals

eg flat rate GPRS 40$ a month
flat rate messaging, 40$ a month?

they do it in the us , with t mobile etc

why not here :)


freitasm
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#5008 23-Apr-2004 20:55
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What I really would like to see is flat rate GPRS or CDMA, like the offers in the US. T-Mobile offers all you can have GPRS for $19.95 (customers with a voice plan) or US$29.95 (customers without a voice plan).

Now that would be neat to have it here.




 

 

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sbiddle
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#5013 24-Apr-2004 08:15
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Until data rates become way more reasonable I can't see data use ever increasing (except for wap and sms). You just have to look at the internet as proof, I remember 10 or so years ago paying $5 per MB for internet access through my ISP, as the price is this came down substancially the usage went up. The key factor with GPRS however is having a network that is capable of handling the extra traffic at a reasonable speed without compromising voice. All the 3G networks in Europe are essentially till charging the same rates for data as they are for GPRS, maybe oneday they'll see the logic behind reducing their rates and increasing the traffic across their network. The issue you get with a wireless network is overselling the network capacity, if you're an ISP you can increase your upstream connection, adding new sites to a cellular network to handle increased data traffic is a rather expensive solution - having said that thouth Vodafone do own the whole 3 900MHz GSM bands in NZ as well as 1800Mhz capacity, the only excuse they should have for congestion is poor network design.

 
 
 
 


peteremcc
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#5036 24-Apr-2004 18:20
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Exactly

sbiddle
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#5042 24-Apr-2004 21:30
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Vodafone own the entire 900MHz GSM spectrum but only have a block of 1800MHz spectrum. They acquired the 3rd GSM 900 block in 2002 after they applied to the commerce commission to acquire it, they ruled it wasn't anti competitive allowing them to own it all as enough 1800, 1900 and 2100Mhz spectrum was owned by competitors to allow a full nationwide network to be built. This block had been held by the MED since the early 90's when Telecom, BellSouth and Telstra (then Telecom Australia) all purchased TACS bands in New Zealand, TACS later became the GSM band. Telecom also purchased the 2nd AMPS band in New Zealand but were told that was being greedy so they had to either give up the 2nd AMPS band or the 3rd TACS band. This single decision can be put down as the biggest mistake ever made by Telecom Mobile, had they keep the TACS spectrum and been able to deploy a GSM network things may have been completely different to what we know it now..

OrangePeel
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#5043 24-Apr-2004 21:43
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Do you mean to say Telecom would have invested in a (3)GSM network? I've thought about this a bit in my head... I can only assume telecom thought that CDMA2000 was going to become a winning technology, as they branded it as the "up-and-coming" thing in cellphone networks. From my perspective it's been a terrible flop for them...

Anyway yeah I feel I'm paying too much for MMS on voda, but no way I'll ever switch.. Not to mention I sell vodafone mobiles and sign people up to vodafone plans for a (part-time) living. Must say it's getting a hell of a lot harder to sell vodafone mobiles to new customer (ie never owned a mobile before) since $10 text. Voda kept their momentum up through free pxt and the tradeup, which was a huge success, but now that it's all calmed down new connections are at an all-time low for us.. Like.. 1 plan signup month to date, normally be on about 8. Still.. Vodafone just need one more good promotion to put them back in the hotseat I reckon.

Anyway.. 3G.. woohoo!

PS: Vodafone group worldwide like to charge lots for things. A pastime when I'm really bored is visiting GSM operator websites to see what's up.. Interesting to find that Vodacom in South Africa (30% vodafone owned) offer to consumers SMS bundles, which make lots of sense. People on plans don't pay by the minute for calls they know ahead of time they'll make, they sign to the appropriate plan. Same thing on vodacom for SMS, you know you send 200 SMS? Sure, pick this SMS bundle for your plan, over that, pay a discounted rate. It works, without being rediculous last-ditch effort like Telecom.

Vodafone have hinted to us stores that their plan offerings are under review, so don't be surprised if some plans come out soonish with some good bundles that make sense for consumers. Also don't be surprised if they choose to do PXT bundling instead of SMS... They seem to have dubbed SMS the "dead duck" despite it being a healthy percentage of their income. A good laugh.

OrangePeel
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#5051 25-Apr-2004 11:51
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This I haven't met? Link me?

OrangePeel
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#5060 25-Apr-2004 16:50
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Yeah that's just the plan.. Nothing new there, always had 10 pxts, 20 txts. I knew that.

What I meant is that you can BUY pxt bundles on top of your plan, eg buy a 200 pxt block for say.. $20 on top of your plan price. 10 free pxts go in about.. 2 days. The 20 txts last even shorter.. That's my first day usually.

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#5061 25-Apr-2004 17:21
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"Do you mean to say Telecom would have invested in a (3)GSM network? I've thought about this a bit in my head... I can only assume telecom thought that CDMA2000 was going to become a winning technology, as they branded it as the "up-and-coming" thing in cellphone networks. From my perspective it's been a terrible flop for them..."

Telecom had no choice but to go for a CDMA network on top of it's existing AMPS/DAMPS network. At the time they seemed to talk a lot about how they could deploy either technology but had looked at both GSM and CDMA and that CDMA was the superior techology. This fact was absolute rubbish. The simple fact is Telecom owned no spectrum that they could deploy a GSM network on. They could have waited until the 3G auction and purchased some 1800MHz spectrum and deployed a nationwide GSM network but the time taken to build a brand new network from scratch is pretty substancial, going with CDMA allowed them to reuse a lot of existing infastructure such as antennas and use them for both technologies on the same site. This allowed them to offer nationwide a nationwide CDMA network at a much cheaper cost and in a relatively short timeframe. CDMA EVDO is an amazing technology and certainly kicks ass over WCDMA however at the end of the day you have to look at some things on a global scale very much like the Beta vs VHS war - the best technology isn't necessarily the winner. Telecom haven't ruled out deploying a WCDMA network rather than the obvious EVDO upgrade, I guess only time will tell.
Personally if I were Telecom now I'd deploy a GSM 1800 network in the major centres and using the mandatory roaming on Vodafone have a nationwide GSM network to give people the choice, both technologies have advantages and it's one of the reasons Telstra is still the leading mobile carrier in Australia.

mikman
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#5201 28-Apr-2004 07:50
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Telecom NZ only had one opportunity to roll out GSM - that was in 1991/2 when they successfully bid for GSM spectrum in an auction - got it for about $5k I understand.

At the time GSM stood for 'God send Mobiles ...' do your research and you'll see that the world was analogue, GSM couldn't get phones and if you had AMPS you went to D-AMPS. So Telecom did a deal with the government and swapped its GSM spectrum for the D-AMPS A Band.
Roll forward to the 1997/98 and it was clear that the path for DAMPS was to CDPD (which Telecom rolled out in metro areas) then EDGE then UMTS - basically 3 network change outs - and more importantly the global eco-system for D-AMPS was looking pretty sick with only AT&T in the US supporting it. Its choices were

1. GSM - great long term play but no spectrum available
2. TDMA through to CDPD through to EDGE through to UMTS - techno dream / market nightmare
3. CDMA - good data story, on the up, but fragmented globally
CDMA ended up being the only real option - much to the CEO's disappointment (he wanted GSM)

Rolling out CDMA was a big deal - about $200m NZD - and it required new switches, kit in every base station and managing the capacity to free up spectrum. About all you could use was the mast, containers and some antennas. New networks are not easy - Vodafone better have its planning well sorted cause all sorts of stuff creeps up on you....

When you look it completely impartially CDMA is a superior technology to GSM - has fantastic voice quality via any industry accepted grading (MOS scores), superior data capability (pure IP all the way), great coverage characteristics (better Signal to Noise ratio and link budget), simpler operation (no frequency planning) and screeds of capacity. Where GSM has an advantage is not in technology per se but in the totally standard adoption of GSM around the world - this drives ecosystem advantages such as handsets (imagine the difference building a handset for a potential market of 1 billion for GSM vs 100 million for CDMA) and roaming. The only real technical advantage that GSM has is SIM - the rest is all about scale.

So what does this mean to this thread?

The market in NZ has basically been 'non-competitive' - as various people have pointed out Vodafone have had it pretty much its own way for the last 2 years through a combination of marketing that hits the spot and scale purchasing of handsets(which BellSouth would have never have got). Vodafone has been able to generate heaps of profit which (sadly) will have mostly gone back to head office in UK - shame they never floated the company so at least Vodafone customers like you and I would have made good money out of the shares....

So Telecom NZ has had to respond - whether you like it or not $10 text has raised Telecom NZ's profile and has meant that for us customers there is a possibility of competition on the horizon. Vodafone will have to really think about how they respond to Telecom's future marketing efforts -it's guarantee on Mobile Data is an interesting position - if they combine this with dropping Mobile Data prices it raises some problems .....

My guess is that Vodafone is struggling for capacity currently - there seem to me to be a lot of delays with SMS, my calls are dropping and GPRS throughput seems to be on the decline . If Telecom drops Data pricing and Vodafone respond then they will inevitably get more usage which will hit their network even harder - and the only relief in sight is UMTS which is quite a long way off

Vodafone will try and keep their prices high-ish (and they probably can get away with it for now with their brand preference and NZ'ers belief that they are the 'underdog') - like not dropping prices for TXT - but eventually customers will move at a price point where its not worth holding on. For me I'm on the way out and with their better data pricing, a performance guarantee and an upcoming launch of WiFi - I think Telecom are on the up and Vodafone will have to fight hard for its customers in areas where they care - like how much their monthly bill is and are they getting value for it. All I am after is fair value and 20cents per txt on Vodafone just is not fair

Bring on the flames....

freitasm
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#5348 2-May-2004 16:24
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milkman, in all a brilliant post. Can't think of flaming that at all. Just a comment.

"Vodafone will try and keep their prices high-ish (and they probably can get away with it for now with their brand preference and NZ'ers belief that they are the 'underdog') - like not dropping prices for TXT - but eventually customers will move at a price point where its not worth holding on. For me I'm on the way out and with their better data pricing, a performance guarantee and an upcoming launch of WiFi - I think Telecom are on the up and Vodafone will have to fight hard for its customers in areas where they care - like how much their monthly bill is and are they getting value for it. All I am after is fair value and 20cents per txt on Vodafone just is not fair"

I agree NZ still thinks Vodafone is the underdog, but reality shows us different. Telecom New Zealand operates individual business units pretty much like independent companies. They have the POTS business, Mobile, Advanced Solutions, Xtra, etc. Currently Telecom as a mobile carrier is the underdog here. I think they just can't differentiate themselves from the rest of the company. While Telecom POTS (or whatever name) compete with Telstra-Clear, Telecom Mobile (with their new Go27 branding and what else) is trying hard to differentiate itself from the rest of te Telecom corporate world, but not being succesful at that because of consumer's view of "poor" competitors against "big, strong" Telecom. We know it's not the case in the mobile scenario.

About wi-fi, it was just announced that Telecom wi-fi will be initially available for Xtra users only. I take this is a billing/charging issue, since they have unified billing. Tried using Xtra? You have to have a Telecom account, even if you don't have a telephone.

I've asked someone on Telecom about this. I commented that most of the places where they plan to deploy wi-fi access points are most likely to be used by international travellers and visitors, not Xtra users. I asked why not deploy it in a prepay fashion, like Reach Wireless or CafeNet. I think the uptake of this service will be very low due to this restriction, however I was told that wi-fi will be coming to non-Xtra customers, even though Telecom sees this as an added-value service, not as a new unit.




 

 

These links are referral codes

 

Geekzone broadband switch | Eletricity comparison and switch | Hatch investment (NZ$ 10 bonus if NZ$100 deposited within 30 days) | Sharesies | Mighty Ape | Backblaze | Amazon | My technology disclosure


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