Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




48 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 4


Topic # 247862 27-Feb-2019 15:43
Send private message quote this post

I used to work at the BBC managing a team of IT engineers. When issues arose with performance on TS or VMs then we had a formula based on the user count to work out what server resources were required. I can't remember what the numbers were though, as it was 5 years ago now.

 

However, back to the here and now, I'm not in IT unfortunately, miss it, but hey ho, my current employer has third party support with everything in the cloud on a TS Server. Since I've started we've added 3 new users, not a lot, but when the available resources were already low, in my opinion, its even worse now. I've asked them to increase RAM and allocate another couple of cores to us but they want more money, even though I have said that as we pay per user, our resource allocation should go up. 

 

I wasn't here when they agreed the contract, and it doesn't explicitly state it that way, although it reads in a way that suggests that, and the management team here understood that was the case too.

 

So my question really is, what is the normal allocation of RAM and CPU per user these days and in a standard cloud based hosting situation, does a per seat cost cover not server resources as well?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Create new topic
defiant
811 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 417

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2188280 27-Feb-2019 16:04
Send private message quote this post

There is no normal allocation when it comes to TS/RDS/Citrix/etc/VDI

 

It all comes down to resource usage per user, depending on their workflow and what apps they use, then extrapolate from there

 

There's a few calculator spreadsheets littered around the net that should give you a rough idea

 

The cloud service is likely priced on resource usage, not per user, usage because its a server object at the end of the day.. so makes sense that they're passing the cost on to you




48 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 4


  Reply # 2188286 27-Feb-2019 16:16
Send private message quote this post

Surely not? How can you plan how big a TS farm to have if you don't have an estimate of users? As I said at the BBC we required it for support of our financial services division, we had 150 users connecting from India, which is fine for just a connection, but when you add the inevitiable purpose of that connection, i.e. an application, then there is a finite number of users you can expect to go on a server. Hence load balancing across a farm as well. I think from memory in this one farm we had 9 servers.

 

However, with a TS on a VM, then it should be easier. Assuming not all resources are allocated from the getgo, atleast in terms of RAM anyway, so increasing the RAM on a VM for a TS should be easy enough, and I think should be part and parcel of the manager user cost. If I have 25 users, then 10 cores and 40Gb might be enough with memory utilisation at about 35Gb, +\- a few. Add in 5 more users and all of a sudden you get performance issues. The understanding is, you pay a per seat cost, the beauty of the cloud is that it covers all resources and licensing. When we add new users they don't sting us for more Office licences, cos its part of it, our understand was hardware was also. Now they want to sting us for $200 a month for another 10Gb RAM. 

 

Just doesn't seem right, so I'm wanting clarification from other IT companies that provide managed service per seat pricing as a comparison, I feel like our providers are slinging kak, but maybe that is how it works, but if so then it should be clear in the agreement. Just a shame they didn't have an IT (Ex) person to review the document beforehand, or atleast something with the foresight to think of this scenario.

 

 


 
 
 
 


1027 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 198

UberGroup

  Reply # 2188315 27-Feb-2019 17:07
Send private message quote this post

It's different for every client, One client may have a young workforce living inside full RDP sessions with 10+ tabs of Chrome open that needs 2vCPU/6gb Ram/100gb SSD class storage per user whilst another may use RemoteApp for office applications with an older workforce may only need 0.5vCPU/1gb Ram/30gb Hybrid storage

 

 

 

As for per seat covering server costs, both ways a valid, I've seen MSP's run a per seat + per human fees for everything and others say that the per seat cost covers desktop support and server costs are additional





Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

defiant
811 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 417

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2188384 27-Feb-2019 18:37
Send private message quote this post

boflit:

 

Surely not? How can you plan how big a TS farm to have if you don't have an estimate of users? As I said at the BBC we required it for support of our financial services division, we had 150 users connecting from India, which is fine for just a connection, but when you add the inevitiable purpose of that connection, i.e. an application, then there is a finite number of users you can expect to go on a server. Hence load balancing across a farm as well. I think from memory in this one farm we had 9 servers.

 

However, with a TS on a VM, then it should be easier. Assuming not all resources are allocated from the getgo, atleast in terms of RAM anyway, so increasing the RAM on a VM for a TS should be easy enough, and I think should be part and parcel of the manager user cost. If I have 25 users, then 10 cores and 40Gb might be enough with memory utilisation at about 35Gb, +\- a few. Add in 5 more users and all of a sudden you get performance issues. The understanding is, you pay a per seat cost, the beauty of the cloud is that it covers all resources and licensing. When we add new users they don't sting us for more Office licences, cos its part of it, our understand was hardware was also. Now they want to sting us for $200 a month for another 10Gb RAM. 

 

Just doesn't seem right, so I'm wanting clarification from other IT companies that provide managed service per seat pricing as a comparison, I feel like our providers are slinging kak, but maybe that is how it works, but if so then it should be clear in the agreement. Just a shame they didn't have an IT (Ex) person to review the document beforehand, or atleast something with the foresight to think of this scenario.

 

 

 

 

Because during the project you have discovery and/or a BA that sits with business users to determine what they use and how they use it, then you enter that data into a calculator and base your initial specs off that

 

I guess it depends on how the contract was drawn up, so its probably better to start there..

 

There is no one size fits all solution, and it sounds like you want a DaaS solution which would be a true per user cost with no care about the resourcing behind it


5369 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1412

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 2188407 27-Feb-2019 19:25
Send private message quote this post

In general there are usually sizing guides available for particular services. Eg this one for remote desktop services https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/iftekhar/2010/02/10/rds-hardware-sizing-and-capacity-planning-guidance/

14507 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2669

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 2188408 27-Feb-2019 19:26
Send private message quote this post

I agree that if you're paying a per user fee you probably shouldn't be paying for additional hardware when things get slow. Can you take your business elsewhere?





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


Create new topic


Donate via Givealittle


Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Amazon introduces new Kindle with adjustable front light
Posted 21-Mar-2019 20:14


A call from the companies providing internet access for the great majority of New Zealanders, to the companies with the greatest influence over social media content
Posted 19-Mar-2019 15:21


Two e-scooter companies selected for Wellington trial
Posted 15-Mar-2019 17:33


GeForce GTX 1660 available now
Posted 15-Mar-2019 08:47


Artificial Intelligence to double the rate of innovation in New Zealand by 2021
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:47


LG demonstrates smart home concepts at LG InnoFest
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:45


New Zealanders buying more expensive smartphones
Posted 11-Mar-2019 09:52


2degrees Offers Amazon Prime Video to Broadband Customers
Posted 8-Mar-2019 14:10


D-Link ANZ launches D-Fend AC2600 Wi-Fi Router Protected by McAfee
Posted 7-Mar-2019 11:09


Slingshot commissions celebrities to design new modems
Posted 5-Mar-2019 08:58


Symantec Annual Threat Report reveals more ambitious, destructive and stealthy attacks
Posted 28-Feb-2019 10:14


FUJIFILM launches high performing X-T30
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:40


Netflix is killing content piracy says research
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:33


Trend Micro finds shifting threats require kiwis to rethink security priorities
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:27


Mainfreight uses Spark IoT Asset Tracking service
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:25



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.