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tussockcreek
40 posts

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  #1733491 9-Mar-2017 08:49
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Maxcat:

 

rphenix:

 

This is becoming more and more common - it almost needs legislative correction devices are being made bricks because someone decides they aren't going to support them anymore there should be a responsibility to either open up the device to firmware mods or at least a final update that allows the device to function relatively well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post and agreed - yes it is.

 

Given the number of people affected by the TIVO end-of-service notice with many suggesting tens of thousands of TIVO still in service, it is a story that needs further coverage because it's TIVO today - something else tomorrow.

 

It serves as a warning for the ages..

 

There is nothing wrong with TIVO. Some will require new drives, but fundamentally this is landfill because of a service contract. 

 

What happens when this affects home security systems or your car's operations or professional service software and firmware which has you backed into a a corner and it's upgrade or lose the service (I am living this one right now).

 

So if nothing else, someone here needs to be the face of TIVO for a Fair Go story.

 

RPhenix you are quite right - there is far more of this to come. TIVO is just one example of perfectly functioning hardware kneecapped by other service providers, creating needless landfill.

 

So who is up for Fair Go as a public service warning of other similar stories and failures to come..?

 

 

 

 

I agree. This is completely different than cadbury's and analog TV's (that was a national decision for the future, and international compatibility).

 

We have a good example of waste here for Fair Go, depending on what we are left with in Oct.


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Maxcat
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  #1733492 9-Mar-2017 08:50
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It is nonetheless a story - a metaphor (of sorts) for the technology age.

 

TIVO being the poster device for a sound product used everyday that can not be saved because the provider won't open it up to others to provide those services for and 'end-of-life' product.

 

All that is needed is for TIVO to allow for the provision of the EPG from another provider.

 

 

 

I have a similar issue with my Freeview TV streamers (Vulkano/Slingbox). These boxes stream from a Freeview set top box. Mine streamed using the HDMI output from TIVO.

 

 

 

Vulkano/Belkin were sued by Slingbox several years ago and lost. People using these devices thought they would end. They haven't. They have kept streaming through the servers.

 

These streaming TV add-on boxes are end-of-life. You can't even get the Belkin@TV app any more, but it does function still  through Vulkano servers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1733493 9-Mar-2017 08:58
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tussockcreek:

 

 

 

I agree. This is completely different than cadbury's and analog TV's (that was a national decision for the future, and international compatibility).

 

We have a good example of waste here for Fair Go, depending on what we are left with in Oct.

 

 

No its not, unless you expect every business to run forever irregardless of costs. Hybrid are out, if someone else wants to pick up the opportunity they can, which will need investment and generate zero income. Had TIVO been able to monetise its free service, then maybe it might still be here, but that didnt work out, so its not. That's life




Maxcat
273 posts

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  #1733496 9-Mar-2017 09:02
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It's not about every business continuing to support products for life.

 

It is about the one business who has described their device as end-of-life, then deciding not to free up the service delivery platform to others.

 

There has been no discussion and no opportunity for anyone to identify what might be possible.

 

It is suck it up, dump the boxes and see you later.

 

Quite aside from the landfill issue, this is a culture we should all be fighting against.

 

There is nothing wrong with the box - it is not end of life - it is merely end of licence.

 

In my world that is a big difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1733499 9-Mar-2017 09:11
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Maxcat:

 

It's not about every business continuing to support products for life.

 

It is about the one business who has described their device as end-of-life, then deciding not to free up the service delivery platform to others.

 

There has been no discussion and no opportunity for anyone to identify what might be possible.

 

It is suck it up, dump the boxes and see you later.

 

Quite aside from the landfill issue, this is a culture we should all be fighting against.

 

There is nothing wrong with the box - it is not end of life - it is merely end of licence.

 

In my world that is a big difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it a HyvridTV issue or Freeview issue, as I gather Freeview dont seem to allow others aside from Panny and Dish to run Freeview PVR's


Maxcat
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  #1733504 9-Mar-2017 09:18
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Irrespective of who owns the issue, the point here is what potential solutions exist and why can't we be invited to participate in a solution?

 

What will happen with certainty at my place is we will be watching fewer FREEVIEW programmes.

 

We will lose the season pass functionality and as a result we will likely just stop watching.

 

The fundamental point here is it is not end of life - Freeview keeps running, programmes will be made, UHF spectrum is still available, TV goes on.

 

If it is genuine end of life, then who cares if we continue to use a box that is so old they've abandoed it?

 

Because it's not end of life - it is end of licence and forced obsolescence - not through technology - through paperwork.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1733513 9-Mar-2017 09:39
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Maxcat:

 

Irrespective of who owns the issue, the point here is what potential solutions exist and why can't we be invited to participate in a solution?

 

What will happen with certainty at my place is we will be watching fewer FREEVIEW programmes.

 

We will lose the season pass functionality and as a result we will likely just stop watching.

 

The fundamental point here is it is not end of life - Freeview keeps running, programmes will be made, UHF spectrum is still available, TV goes on.

 

If it is genuine end of life, then who cares if we continue to use a box that is so old they've abandoed it?

 

Because it's not end of life - it is end of licence and forced obsolescence - not through technology - through paperwork.

 

 

 

 

Freeview PVR's have season pass. I imagine thats standard. If TIVO and Hybrid are exiting the service, they are exiting. Freeview who provides the EPG can support the end of product TIVO if they chose to, but why would they as its end of life. Windows XP is end f life is stil works but no one wants to waste time supporting it and its not supported by its licensor, MS. You can still use it but features arent all there as its not supported to todays software or security. TIVO will still work, but its not being supported, you cant really expect them to end the product, and stay around to support it. Freeview could make efforts to send the EPG to TIVO by using their servers not TIVO servers, but why would they as the box is a hardware and software driven device and isnt being supported.

 

If there were other FV PVR's that had a grid UI, then I assume this is less an issue, but there isnt, and I'd say that's a Freeview issue, so the efforts re the TIVO device ending are better being sent to Freeview as they seem to be the ones holding back the service to other brands. We should actually have a few brands out there, with different UI's being fed from the same FV EPG, but we dont. If we did, then TIVO ending isn't a big deal, as we would have a 2017 FV UI's and features to choose from




Maxcat
273 posts

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  #1733519 9-Mar-2017 09:47
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"Why would they want to?"

 

 

 

Because they will lose viewers (= less exposure to advertisers).

 

Right now, it is in their best commercial interests to maintain eyeballs on FREEVIEW.

 

 Thread started in the 'Developers Corner' TIVO Forum in the US.

 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/community/index.php?threads/new-zealand-australia-tivo-dies-in-october.548807/

 

 

 


robfish
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  #1733521 9-Mar-2017 09:48
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As already stated in this thread.....

 

EPG  is already available for free.

 

Don't blame Freeview.





Rob

rphenix
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  #1733526 9-Mar-2017 09:55
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Maxcat:

 

Because it's not end of life - it is end of licence and forced obsolescence - not through technology - through paperwork.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure if they updated the Tivos to allow EPG data without DRM limitations such as removing the need for the data to be signed from a particular certificate along with documentation on what format the Tivo needs the EPG data in and any expected challenge/responses a community solution would be created.


tdgeek
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  #1733528 9-Mar-2017 10:02
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robfish:

 

As already stated in this thread.....

 

EPG  is already available for free.

 

Don't blame Freeview.

 

 

Who to blame then? Can't blame HybridTV as the TIVO venture was a failure, and they wont be around, in fact they are off the Companies Register already. It was an unsuccessful device, and thus it and its provider are ending. It failed in NZ and Australia, so if anyone can make it a hobby thing thats all good, but I dont get the blame and Fair Go commentary

 

 

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/digital-recording-service-tivo-shut-down.html

 

 


Maxcat
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  #1733533 9-Mar-2017 10:10
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I'm not after blame. I'm after solutions.

 

And this is not about the companies that have suffered commercial loses - it is about finding technical solutions to products that have been described as end of life.

 

The companies involved TVNZ/ Spark/Hybrid have all lost money.

 

I am simply after a way to keep these units going when they are not end of life products - they function perfectly, so if there was a way we could get the freely available EPG into the TIVO platform.

 

The correct phrase is they are at the 'end of their commercial life'.

 

Fine, so the companies abandon it. We all understand that.

 

But we are in effect, recycling a product which has been deemed to be useless. Users have been advised to stop using their TIVOs come October.

 

So what have any of these companies got to lose if we as a community come with a solution for the EPG which keeps eyes on Freeview?

 

Who loses here? TIVO won't launch with new models - so who has anything to lose (except the consumer if we can't succeed) if we can keep TIVOs working? 

 

Who loses money?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1733537 9-Mar-2017 10:16
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Maxcat:

 

I'm not after blame. I'm after solutions.

 

And this is not about the companies that have suffered commercial loses - it is about finding technical solutions to products that have been described as end of life.

 

The companies involved TVNZ/ Spark/Hybrid have all lost money.

 

I am simply after a way to keep these units going when they are not end of life products - they function perfectly, so if there was a way we could get the freely available EPG into the TIVO platform.

 

The correct phrase is they are at the 'end of their commercial life'.

 

Fine, so the companies abandon it. We all understand that.

 

But we are in effect, recycling a product which has been deemed to be useless. Users have been advised to stop using their TIVOs come October.

 

So what have any of these companies got to lose if we as a community come with a solution for the EPG which keeps eyes on Freeview?

 

Who loses here? TIVO won't launch with new models - so who has anything to lose (except the consumer if we can't succeed) if we can keep TIVOs working? 

 

Who loses money?

 

 

 

 

I fully agree with you, if anyone wants to put together a third party solution, than thats great. My only issue is the blame game that some have here, Fair Go, and so on


old3eyes
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  #1733538 9-Mar-2017 10:21
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tdgeek:

 

robfish:

 

As already stated in this thread.....

 

EPG  is already available for free.

 

Don't blame Freeview.

 

 

Who to blame then? Can't blame HybridTV as the TIVO venture was a failure, and they wont be around, in fact they are off the Companies Register already. It was an unsuccessful device, and thus it and its provider are ending. It failed in NZ and Australia, so if anyone can make it a hobby thing thats all good, but I dont get the blame and Fair Go commentary

 

 

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/digital-recording-service-tivo-shut-down.html

 

 

 

 

I think that the blame for TiVo failure can be laid at the door of Hybrid who chose a very restrictive sales model  in NZ by only selling via Telecom and charging over $900 for the unit.  I suspect that their AU sales channel wan't much better..





Regards,

Old3eyes


Maxcat
273 posts

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  #1733540 9-Mar-2017 10:22
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Fair Go simply provides a conduit to get information to those folks who don't know their TIVO is about to go down (many of whom may be elderly).

 

It is an information channel as much as a complaints channel.

 

Primarily I want to reach as many people so potential solutions across multiple communities and possible related businesses might be reached.

 

We won't do it through Geekzone.

 

We may do it through Fair Go.

 

I am though concerned at the growing use of 'end-of-life' being used describe lack of commercial interest.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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