TiVo Service ending on 31 October 2017

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# 1740465 16-Mar-2017 20:00

Read my edit... on the bottom of the site.

You're not going to win, sorry.

It has nothing to do with TiVo except they licenced the rights to the hardware and the name to Hybrid. The licence is up in october, and since they haven't sold anything since 2013, they have no money to renew.

It's over, unless Rovi, who want out of the hardware business, decide to licence to someone else.

TVNZ, Spark, Channel 7 Oz have all moved on to their own systems. TiVo was convenient when they had no online systems.

What presence do Virgin TV have in the southern hemisphere? ANd if they did... 4 million users in the whole UK would equal about 200,000 in Oz and NZ, if Sky would let them. Not worth it.

Maxcat

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# 1742676 17-Mar-2017 12:47

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Here is my column, a first shot at describing the Tivo Trap.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/90531598/max-christoffersen-invisibles-pull-the-plug-in-tale-of-electronic-woe

mattwnz

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# 1742749 17-Mar-2017 13:40

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Great opinion piece. Pity the media haven't picked up the story and investigated exactly what happened. I mean why was Hybrid was advertising it as having an EPG for life of the box, when that when they only had a 10 year license?

Maxcat

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# 1742752 17-Mar-2017 13:44

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mattwnz: Great opinion piece. Pity the media haven't picked up the story and investigated exactly what happened. I mean why was Hybrid was advertising it as having an EPG for life of the box, when that when they only had a 10 year license?

Yeah that to me is the kicker too..

Essentially they knew 10 years was the exit door.

I bought assuming the TIVO name would stand up over time. That fine print gives the game away.

For me, the Life Time Map Update on various GPS units is still quite deliberately being used to mean exactly what it doesn't offer (particularly on TM).

robfish

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# 1742773 17-Mar-2017 14:26

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Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

Rob

Maxcat

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# 1742777 17-Mar-2017 14:31

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robfish:

Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

Yes we are.

The problem I think is that few know it or know what you mean.

Even fewer product providers will detail who holds the turn key (and under what conditions and time frame) to their device.

So the much larger problem than TIVO is trying to identify who is in control of whom and for how long for the product or software you want.

In a way it is linked (at a stretch) to the story about the guy who took the car seller to court this week or last about the cost of his car key...and won.

mattwnz

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# 1742783 17-Mar-2017 14:46

robfish:

Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

I seems lmost all these smart type devices being sold these days that need a remote connection are proprietary. Potentially apple devices are the same, but they don't remove essential features that will render a device useless, just because it has reached a certain age.

In this case it appears Hybrid always only a 10 year license to provide Tivo to Australia, and by the time they sold it in NZ, it was down to 7-8 years remaining. So IMO they should have stamped on the box that the box expired in 2017, so buyer knew that it had a time limited life to it. I would have thought that would have been required under NZ laws? In normal cases you would expect the parent company who owns the license to step in after the license expires, but Tivo US don't appear to be wanting to do that.

gregmcc

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# 1742792 17-Mar-2017 15:04

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mattwnz:

robfish:

Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

I seems lmost all these smart type devices being sold these days that need a remote connection are proprietary. Potentially apple devices are the same, but they don't remove essential features that will render a device useless, just because it has reached a certain age.

In this case it appears Hybrid always only a 10 year license to provide Tivo to Australia, and by the time they sold it in NZ, it was down to 7-8 years remaining. So IMO they should have stamped on the box that the box expired in 2017, so buyer knew that it had a time limited life to it. I would have thought that would have been required under NZ laws? In normal cases you would expect the parent company who owns the license to step in after the license expires, but Tivo US don't appear to be wanting to do that.

Got to remember under NZ law (consumer guarantees act) you can also chase the retailer..........most cases it Telecom (AKA Spark) and near the end of retail sales it was also Noel Lemmings, both of these companies are still around so the legal obligation falls on them to repair/replace/refund........

old3eyes

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# 1742818 17-Mar-2017 16:17

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Good article max. I'm in the same boat as you with two perfectly good TiVos which will become set top boxes after October 31st. Would love to see someone else here pickup the license and sell new boxes even with a monthly maintenance fee.

Regards,

Old3eyes

mattwnz

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# 1742819 17-Mar-2017 16:21

old3eyes:

Good article max. I'm in the same boat as you with two perfectly good TiVos which will become set top boxes after October 31st. Would love to see someone else here pickup the license and sell new boxes even with a monthly maintenance fee.

Spark would be the ideal company (maybe with Lightbox) to pickit up, considering they were also the ones retailing them in NZ. Maybe if they get enough people writing in to complain about it, they may do something about it. The problem is that many people with tivos probably don't know that their box will be junk in a few month, because the announcement was only emailed. Many people would have changed their email address since then or had them setup by someone else. So this may only start making headlines once it actually shuts down, and then it will probably be too late to do much about it.

Maxcat

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# 1742858 17-Mar-2017 17:01

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mattwnz:

old3eyes:

Good article max. I'm in the same boat as you with two perfectly good TiVos which will become set top boxes after October 31st. Would love to see someone else here pickup the license and sell new boxes even with a monthly maintenance fee.

Spark would be the ideal company (maybe with Lightbox) to pickit up, considering they were also the ones retailing them in NZ. Maybe if they get enough people writing in to complain about it, they may do something about it. The problem is that many people with tivos probably don't know that their box will be junk in a few month, because the announcement was only emailed. Many people would have changed their email address since then or had them setup by someone else. So this may only start making headlines once it actually shuts down, and then it will probably be too late to do much about it.

Now posted on Lightbox Facebook page.

Part of the motivation for my column was to get the information out there.

Many (likely thousands) of TIVO owners won't know, so every avenue to help them become aware and plan for the October TIVO turn off is needed.

Maxcat

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# 1742871 17-Mar-2017 17:30

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mattwnz:

robfish:

Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

I seems lmost all these smart type devices being sold these days that need a remote connection are proprietary. Potentially apple devices are the same, but they don't remove essential features that will render a device useless, just because it has reached a certain age.

In this case it appears Hybrid always only a 10 year license to provide Tivo to Australia, and by the time they sold it in NZ, it was down to 7-8 years remaining. So IMO they should have stamped on the box that the box expired in 2017, so buyer knew that it had a time limited life to it. I would have thought that would have been required under NZ laws? In normal cases you would expect the parent company who owns the license to step in after the license expires, but Tivo US don't appear to be wanting to do that.

One that caught me, was Sony (and I understand Panasonic may also have been affected) with a YouTube TV app that stopped working.

YouTube had updated its TV app. That update rendered my TV YouTube playback redundant.

So the App that shows on my Sony won't play and Sony won't update the software - so it's no YouTube and buy another Sony TV (and Blu-Ray player - both were affected by the YouTube update).

The size of the company is no guarantee of ongoing service supply.

Apple TV has also removed a bunch of Apps from the ATV3.

Any new TV I buy in future will NOT be a smart TV due to the updating merry go round that leaves the end user high and dry..just like TIVO.

minimoke

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# 1742882 17-Mar-2017 18:36

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I intend chasing Telecom (Spark) under the CGA about this. I had thought I might leave it closer to October. Instead I think I might give them the courtesy of asking how they intend resolve the matter when it arrives. A job for me for the weekend.

blakamin

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# 1742899 17-Mar-2017 19:11

Maxcat:

Here is my column, a first shot at describing the Tivo Trap.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/90531598/max-christoffersen-invisibles-pull-the-plug-in-tale-of-electronic-woe

Good to see you got the standard "Aussie Bashing" in...

SMH...

mattwnz

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# 1742942 17-Mar-2017 19:52

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Maxcat:

mattwnz:

robfish:

Unfortunately we are vulnerable to this happening to any software which is not open source.

I seems lmost all these smart type devices being sold these days that need a remote connection are proprietary. Potentially apple devices are the same, but they don't remove essential features that will render a device useless, just because it has reached a certain age.

In this case it appears Hybrid always only a 10 year license to provide Tivo to Australia, and by the time they sold it in NZ, it was down to 7-8 years remaining. So IMO they should have stamped on the box that the box expired in 2017, so buyer knew that it had a time limited life to it. I would have thought that would have been required under NZ laws? In normal cases you would expect the parent company who owns the license to step in after the license expires, but Tivo US don't appear to be wanting to do that.

One that caught me, was Sony (and I understand Panasonic may also have been affected) with a YouTube TV app that stopped working.

YouTube had updated its TV app. That update rendered my TV YouTube playback redundant.

So the App that shows on my Sony won't play and Sony won't update the software - so it's no YouTube and buy another Sony TV (and Blu-Ray player - both were affected by the YouTube update).

The size of the company is no guarantee of ongoing service supply.

Apple TV has also removed a bunch of Apps from the ATV3.

Any new TV I buy in future will NOT be a smart TV due to the updating merry go round that leaves the end user high and dry..just like TIVO.

I had the same problem with my sony TV. Although that was slightly different, because the removal of youtube didn't render the TV useless . Sure someone may have purchased it mainly for youtube, but they could resolve that by just buying a chromecast to plug into it. The other thing is that Youtube is third party so in some ways sony doesn't have that much control over what youtube does. But it still isn't a good look for Sony, beucase I presume they could have had a downloadable update for it so it worked with the new API. Infact they have now removed other smart features since then, I don't think the facebook or twitter apps work any longer either. But I would like to see a warning placed on all these types of smart devices, warning that the service may end, and the ramifications, so consumers are aware and have some protection

Tivo is totally different , in that it is it's own proprietary system, and the removal of the EPG and genie etc, render the device next to useless. Tivo therefore has complete control over this. I think it is highly unusual for a company to issue a license to a third party for the running of a lifetime service, that should have lasted the life of the box (Hybrid Australias own words on their youtube channel), but then leave those customers without a provider when the license ends. As they are both overseas companies, I am guessing they don't need to abide by NZs consumer laws? I am guessing Australia's consumer laws at the time they were selling tivos wasn't up to the same levels as NZ consumer laws are. But why doesn't tivo just give someone the license to continue, because it is not going to cost TiVo any money in lost revenue, as they are no longer in the NZ market. So that is why as Greg posted above, people have no real option but to go back to the retailer, if Tivo overseas is just going to fob off kiwi customers about the problem. I guess the more people that complain to both the retailers, and Hybrid directly, the more likely they may do something about it. Especially if it is going to end up costing them money.

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