Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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# 1744150 19-Mar-2017 23:02

minimoke:

blakamin:

mattwnz:

Well if you have moved on with a new device, then why are you even participating?

Because I was trying to make you see common sense and stop you wasting your time, and the time of people in the MBIE that could be actually doing something important.

Like I said, it's been fun, in a "pulling out your toenails" kind of way.

No waste of time - itrs my time and I can do with it what I will. No idea why you are worried about MBIE, they are govt workers and get paid wehter its important business or not. This is an issue between a consumer and a supplier. pure and simple.

We dont need common sense - we need an understanding of consumer rights under the CGA and Fair trading Act. So far it seems we have a general consensus that 5 years is a good life for a tivo which i think is a bit light for a "world calls product. "But for the purposes of this discussion I can live with it. I've given you an example of how my Tivo comes within that time frame. So that is that obstacle covered.

Next is clarity on the terms and conditions under which the tivo device was supplied. I've owned up and said as far as I recall it was under an agreement to stay with Telecom for 12 months but I dont recall the precise terms.. But I will try to track down something else or confirm that.

If consumers have no interest in their rights if a product fails, especially in the third party technology space then this will be a waste of time. No point looking at the thread in that case,

That is completely incorrect. Just because some see your tactic as unreasonable, doesnt mean they dont care about consumer rights. Some could say that you are wishing to use the consumer rights too get easy money. For your two old Tivos that owe you just $300 total.

Freeview, I don't see claims for non FV TV's as these failed. Notice given.

CDMA, I cant recall 500,000 Nokias being sent out to CDMA customers. Notice given

tdgeek

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# 1744151 19-Mar-2017 23:03

minimoke:

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

The unit will. It is trying to, but the Hybrid signal is beep beep beep

tdgeek

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# 1744152 19-Mar-2017 23:18

Yabanize:

We own a TiVo however the remote stopped working not long after we got it (I used a phone app to control it for a while) but in the end we just stopped using it.

I'm mostly commenting on this to play devils advocate and am not too concerned, they were a darn cool box though.

How about the fact comparable boxes from competitors (myFreeview etc) Panasonic will continue to work for many years to come? Where as these will just drop off

Exactly. Tivo is proprietary, everyone else, and there are many use standard Freeview. While there are only two brands that I know of that do FV PVR's, many do FV decoders, its standard, a NZ standard. If you use a proprietary device, that is American, licenced to an AustraliaNZ company, that in itself is a risk.

tdgeek

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# 1744153 19-Mar-2017 23:19

scuwp:
minimoke:
scuwp:

minimoke:

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

Yes the taxpayer pays for the folk at MBiE and the courts. Absolutely a claims hearing will be using our tax dollars. Why it seems that 'government employees' are somehow second class workers who deserve to have their time wasted is rather condescending and unfortunate, but I digress.

Yes the unit will be cease to work as it was originally intended, that's an indisputable fact. The question is whether the 5+ years of use constitutes a reasonable lifespan for the product/service. All but a select few on this thread reckon it is.

So you agree unit will not perform as intended. And my unit is less than 5 years. Why would you object to me seeking a remedy

I don't object. Fill your boots. I just don't believe you have a valid argument, at least not one that is worth a battle for the small amount of recompense, if any, you may get. To the best of my understanding they were last sold over 5 years ago now (I am guessing that's why they have waited this long to pull the pin) I genuinely wish you all the best in your endevours and look forward to updates on how you get on.

Undoubtedly after taking legal advice.

mattwnz

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# 1744154 19-Mar-2017 23:35

tdgeek:

Tivo is proprietary, everyone else, and there are many use standard Freeview. While there are only two brands that I know of that do FV PVR's, many do FV decoders, its standard, a NZ standard. If you use a proprietary device, that is American, licenced to an AustraliaNZ company, that in itself is a risk.

Yes there is a risk. Maybe there needs to be more consumer protection for this sort of thing, with revised laws, as this sort of thing is happening more and more with 'cloud' based products. I have been affected by it at 4 times now in recent times. For two of the products, I returned to the retailer and got either refund or a replacement product. One product was a weather station which grabbed data from around the world, and pushed it to an LCD display. They decided to switch off their weather server, and it stopped working. The overseas manufacturer was offering people discount off a new model as compo, but that offer had since expired.
For the third product, a Sony Smart TV, I decided to live with it, because I didn't use the smart functions enough, and the TV is still usable with my Tivo (a little bit ironic), and chromecast . The Tivo is the latest affected by this, and more and more people are going to have problems like this in the future. The best companies though don't let this sort of thing happen. Old apple products could suffer the same problem , but apple keep supporting them, even though they aren't being paid for this. eg As far as I am aware the newest version of itunes will still work with the original apple ipods. I would imagine the uproar if older models of iphone were rendered unusable. Although it will happen eventually to very old models when the 2G network is switched off, (although that would be caused by a third party provider and not apple).

It is a little like these 'lifetime guarantees' being offered for products,eg saucepans, when you often find in the small print it only applies for the 'expected life of the product, and they don't expect saucepans to last more than 15 years. etc.

Journeyman

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# 1744165 20-Mar-2017 00:57

3 people support this post

minimoke:

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

BAHAHAHAHAHAAA! 12 pages and that's the stellar argument you've arrived at? You're just going to ignore what everybody has explained to you and you're going straight back to square one with the argument you like the best, no matter how flawed?

Okay, well... good luck with that. Could you perhaps make a secret recording of your Disputes Tribunal hearing and post a transcription here for all of us?

tdgeek

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# 1744180 20-Mar-2017 06:50

mattwnz:

tdgeek:

Tivo is proprietary, everyone else, and there are many use standard Freeview. While there are only two brands that I know of that do FV PVR's, many do FV decoders, its standard, a NZ standard. If you use a proprietary device, that is American, licenced to an AustraliaNZ company, that in itself is a risk.

Yes there is a risk. Maybe there needs to be more consumer protection for this sort of thing, with revised laws, as this sort of thing is happening more and more with 'cloud' based products. I have been affected by it at 4 times now in recent times. For two of the products, I returned to the retailer and got either refund or a replacement product. One product was a weather station which grabbed data from around the world, and pushed it to an LCD display. They decided to switch off their weather server, and it stopped working. The overseas manufacturer was offering people discount off a new model as compo, but that offer had since expired.
For the third product, a Sony Smart TV, I decided to live with it, because I didn't use the smart functions enough, and the TV is still usable with my Tivo (a little bit ironic), and chromecast . The Tivo is the latest affected by this, and more and more people are going to have problems like this in the future. The best companies though don't let this sort of thing happen. Old apple products could suffer the same problem , but apple keep supporting them, even though they aren't being paid for this. eg As far as I am aware the newest version of itunes will still work with the original apple ipods. I would imagine the uproar if older models of iphone were rendered unusable. Although it will happen eventually to very old models when the 2G network is switched off, (although that would be caused by a third party provider and not apple).

It is a little like these 'lifetime guarantees' being offered for products,eg saucepans, when you often find in the small print it only applies for the 'expected life of the product, and they don't expect saucepans to last more than 15 years. etc.

The lifetime word is an issue, I agree. When I looked at the US Tivo, you buy a Tivo, and you pay a sub. Forget the actual periods, but it was like a month, or a year or lifetime, lifetime meaning a one off payment, rather than a regular sub. This I feel is where the issue is here. Its a one off payment for the box, and for the EPG.

But could you take your TV to the retailer to get a full refund?

tdgeek

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# 1744181 20-Mar-2017 06:52

The OP's two Tivos owe him $300. Now, IMHO, he could focus on the Whirlpool site in order to extend the life of them.

minimoke

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# 1744184 20-Mar-2017 07:09

tdgeek:

Are you saying that no one from Spark got out a hard copy of T+C's and gave then to you to sign? No they would not have. If they did would you have read them all? They, like all others are online. If you did due diligence you could have read them. Off corse, few do, but they are there, not hidden.

I woudl accept email t's and C's. Seems we are moving a step closer. So there is potential that spark did not give me terms and conditions at the time. So what we agreed on at the time is what applies. Whether I read all the T's and C's is immaterial. It is encumbent on me to do so and I am bound by them - of course I understand that!. But if there were none at the beginning when the contract was formed then thats a potential foot in the door. Earlier up this thread its been established that T's and C'cant be established later on.

minimoke

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# 1744185 20-Mar-2017 07:11

tdgeek:

They have already been posted.

I understand that - but they were not necessarily the terms agreed at the time the Tivo was purchased by the consumer and provided by the supplier

tdgeek

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# 1744186 20-Mar-2017 07:14

minimoke:

tdgeek:

Are you saying that no one from Spark got out a hard copy of T+C's and gave then to you to sign? No they would not have. If they did would you have read them all? They, like all others are online. If you did due diligence you could have read them. Off corse, few do, but they are there, not hidden.

I woudl accept email t's and C's. Seems we are moving a step closer. So there is potential that spark did not give me terms and conditions at the time. So what we agreed on at the time is what applies. Whether I read all the T's and C's is immaterial. It is encumbent on me to do so and I am bound by them - of course I understand that!. But if there were none at the beginning when the contract was formed then thats a potential foot in the door. Earlier up this thread its been established that T's and C'cant be established later on.

I dont believe any T+C's were altered later on.

tdgeek

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# 1744187 20-Mar-2017 07:15

And I have never seen any T+C's emailed to anyone either

tdgeek

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# 1744188 20-Mar-2017 07:20

minimoke:

tdgeek:

They have already been posted.

I understand that - but they were not necessarily the terms agreed at the time the Tivo was purchased by the consumer and provided by the supplier

I dont imagine the legal system allows T+C's t be changed from time to time. apart from new sales and only applying to the new sales

Mattnz I think said his Tivo is within 5 years. I believe that. They stopped selling 5 years ago, but the end date is 31 Oct, which I imagine removes the Consumer law issue, and you can guarantee that they took legal advice before proceeding, and that the end date covers off the 5 years for everyone. They said exactly that in their email

tdgeek

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# 1744197 20-Mar-2017 07:32

Are you looking at the Whirlpool site to extend the life of it?

riahon

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# 1744203 20-Mar-2017 07:46

minimoke:

tdgeek:

They have already been posted.

I understand that - but they were not necessarily the terms agreed at the time the Tivo was purchased by the consumer and provided by the supplier

Yes - they were

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